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WikiIslam:Discussions/Editor Discussions

2015-11-16T22:06:17Z

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{{Discussions}}
'''''This page is for discussions between editors. Visitors should use the [[WikiIslam:Discussions/Visitor Inquiries|visitors]] page. All new discussion topics should be created at the bottom of the page, below all previous discussions, and all messages should be [[WikiIslam:Signatures|signed]].'''''

== Logical Errors rename==

Shall we make logical errors into "logical errors and absurdities" or put any word like "absurdities"? Then there will be a lot more to add.--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 09:50, 27 February 2014 (PST)

:No, I think absurdities is too wide in scope. For example, most of the scientific errors could be seen as absurdities. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 15:24, 27 February 2014 (PST)
::How about something temporary and general like [[WikiIslam:Sandbox/Issues in the Quran]] and gather all the relevant verses and make whatever kinds of internal headings we like. The first main step is to gather the verses and some rough sorting and then later refinement to make sure the claim is correct and refining the sorting/headings also. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 16:01, 27 February 2014 (PST)

:::I don't think the issue is a temporary one that can be sorted by refining sub-heading. If that was the case, then the present heading, "Logical Errors in the Qur'an", is fine for now. The issue is about the entire direction of the article i.e. the author hasn't decided on the topic of the article yet. Clearly that's an odd place to be when an article has already been started. The original topic (logical errors) does not seem to create enough content to warrant an article, so the new title, "logical errors and absurdities" was suggested to allow widening its scope. However, including "absurdities" widens the scope too far. To me, the reasonable conclusion is that there is no article here, or it should at least be put on hold until there are enough logical errors found, and efforts should be concentrated on the "Qur'anic Claim of Having Details" article which has more potential, but that's probably not what everyone wants to hear, so we come back the same problem. What is this article about? If it's about "Issues in the Quran", then that completely obliterates the scope. There are hundreds of issues with the Qur'an and we have hundreds of articles dealing with them. I doubt Saggy or anyone will be willing to create an article that would encompass them all, but readers who land on a page named "Issues in the Quran" would expect nothing less. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 16:48, 27 February 2014 (PST)
::::If its in a Sandbox article space it doesnt matter what the article title is or if it doesnt have any structure and so on. Its not indexed and its under construction.
::::The first step of these articles is to choose from the 6000 verses by scanning them. We dont want any restrictions at this stage which could slow that down. The next is some kind of sorting or making sense of it. When its time to move the article to the main space only then we have to worry about applying the rules you mentioned and I agree with those rules (correct titles whether its one title or many, scope, how it fits in with everything else, whether its a valid claim or not, etc). It has to be ok in every way. Saggy is doing the first core task, bringing out those verses so that can go on in a Sandbox article. In the end we can come back to your comments and see what to do next. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 04:41, 28 February 2014 (PST)
:::::Well, if you, Saggy or whoever want to do it that way then it doesn't bother me in the slightest, because it's up to each individual how they spend their time and it's being done in a sandbox. But scanning 6000 verses then deciding on what to do with them is not the optimal way good articles are written. That sounds quite absurd in itself. It's common sense that when you write an article that you have a general idea of what the article is about, and only then do you do the research for it. Take the "Qur'an detail" article. We know we want verses that lack detail, so we scan the Qur'an for verses that fit the description. We do not scan the Qur'an for an unidentified purpose, collect anything that looks interesting and then decide that "there are some verses here that lack detail. Let's make an article about it". [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 05:14, 28 February 2014 (PST)
::::::Actually I've always wanted to scan the Quran for all the interesting things but Skeptics Quran has done a lot of it (I remember your comment about SAQ). In any case yes, as long as its done in a Sandbox people can do what they like (good practice for articles under construction in any case). In the end we can see if it makes sense or not, or how to fix it. If you had to scan the Quran for an identified purpose, you would to scan it again every time you had a new purpse. If scanning is done one time but we have a "filter" on it (like an email filter), it saves time. Anyway. Yea its up to Saggy on what he wants to write in the Sandbox. I need to take a closer look at these articles some time to see how its going. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 05:21, 28 February 2014 (PST)
:::::::Scanning the Qur'an as a general project is a completely different task to the one we are discussing here i.e. Saggy's "logical errors" page. And yeah, when you know what you're looking for, you would scan it again. That's how it's done. Or do you think if you scan the Qur'an now you will never have to scan the Qur'an ever again? We've all "scanned" the Qur'an multiple times (i.e. when we've read through it), but that doesn't do away with the need of re-scanning the Qur'an for a specific purpose. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 05:33, 28 February 2014 (PST)
::::::::I dont know, I guess its however he scans it. If it was me who had to do it, I would keep a checklist of stuff I want to check against. Anyway, yea he can work on the sandbox page as he likes. I know he was talking about the Logical errors page. I was just giving the general advice that he can work on a sandbox page. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 16:53, 28 February 2014 (PST)
:::::::::I asked because I saw some things that may not be logical as I think but they are not scientific either. Just erros.--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:40, 1 March 2014 (PST)
::::::::::I just renamed it to [[WikiIslam:Sandbox/Logical Errors and Other Issues in the Qur'an]] for a general kind of title. You can think about renaming it to something more specific in the end when you're done with it. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 19:16, 6 March 2014 (PST)

==Article on Ali==
How about an article on Ali? He's (one of) the most important men in Islamic history, so why not? [[User:LawrenceGilmore|LawrenceGilmore]] ([[User talk:LawrenceGilmore|talk]]) 14:01, 5 March 2014 (PST)
:I made your inquiry into a new section by making a heading. Sure thats fine only if it would be a good article related to criticism of Islam. Otherwise not too much time should be spent on it in my opinion but thats up to you. Do you have any thoughts about the text extracts [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Sandbox/Islamophobia_-_temp] for the iphobia article? Sorry I have been putting off working on that article but I was waiting to see what you thought of the extracts. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 14:23, 5 March 2014 (PST)

== Create the Details article? ==

I think its time to create the details article, What do you say?--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:33, 11 March 2014 (PDT)
:I think it needs a language cleanup. I'll try to look at it and see what I can improve.
:One of the strongest cases on that page is the 5 pillars. Can you think of any other cases like these where the detail is seriously needed, is an important part of Islamic belief but is there in the Quran? Those would be very good additions to the page and are not as important as the other verses (stories with missing details e.g.) --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 17:22, 11 March 2014 (PDT)
::I think there's probably a lot more that can be added (possibly after the article's creation, but preferably before) and I agree with Axius concerning the need of a language cleanup. I too will try to help with that in the next day or two. I would also say that the 5 pillars section needs to be redone to be consistent with the rest. So, IMO, it is not quite ready but it is getting close. Other than that; well done. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 22:04, 11 March 2014 (PDT)
::: I [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=WikiIslam:Sandbox/Qur%27anic_Claim_of_Having_Details&diff=105705&oldid=105634 added] some more verses for the claims of being detailed and made some headings. I found those additional verses [http://www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/islam/pillars/al-salat_%28P1192%29.html here] after searching for what Quran says about salat so I could add those verses. For now I just did this and will try to add salat verses related verses so match the other sections. A good compilation of Salat related verses has been done for us here: http://www.progressive-muslim.org/salat-prayer-quran.htm . A page like this can probably go in a Ref tag, and we can have some specific verses and for the rest we can give the reader the link in the Ref tag.
:::Saggy, my opinion is that new verses for missing details should not be added anymore unless they're really good. Instead the effort should be focused on finalizing this page. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 20:36, 12 March 2014 (PDT)
::::Saggy, additions of new verses is fine but it may keep extending the time it may take for the article to be reviewed/finalized (just letting you know). You can keep adding the verses though I think thats fine. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 07:01, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
:::::I planned the order to be numerical so we start with chapter 2 and go to 113 :/ --[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 08:55, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
::::::Oh ok. I [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=WikiIslam:Sandbox/Qur%27anic_Claim_of_Having_Details&diff=105829&oldid=105824 reverted] myself then. I think it should be revised so its categorized in the other sense. I think its more powerful to present "practices of Islam" in one section and laws in another etc. Do you disagree? OR, you can reorder them in the end when you're done. Another related point is that there are enough "stories" (fables) for now. It would be nice to have more incomplete details for other categories like "laws" or practices in Islam (charity, fasting, salat) etc. Or any new categories. But yes I do believe that presenting related categories is more powerful. We dont follow the chapter series anywhere on other pages because the verses are pretty random. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 09:04, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
:::::::Law? theres hardly any law to search for i think. some practices eg. pilgrimage are more detailed than the 1-line-stories so there may not be more practices to insert. Some are not story or anything categoryable eg. "We revealed the book and with it the balance". Where do they go in the event of separation?--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:26, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
::::::::[http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Sandbox/Qur%27anic_Claim_of_Having_Details#Thief.27s_Repentance Thief's repentance] is one example of a law/sharia issue, currently the only one though. The others can go in a "Miscellaneous/Other verses" section. I guess keep collecting and we can think about it in the end. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 11:38, 15 March 2014 (PDT)

I readied the prose, now create it or u want more verses?--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 08:40, 20 March 2014 (PDT)
:I will read through it later and clean it up before creating it. There's enough content there for an initial article. But I also want to separate the 5 Pillars before that. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 09:35, 20 March 2014 (PDT)
::2 pillars and ablution; and 1 or two more laws. Should they all go into one bunch? The Rest of the pillars have a decent amount of details so they may not go in.--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 12:12, 20 March 2014 (PDT)
:::It's okay. I worked around it now. For Axius: concerning that progressive-muslim link; the translation they use is not accurate and distorts verses a lot. They're also Qur'anist apologists; their whole point is that the Qur'an is detailed, so I don't think it will benefit us from citing Qur'anist apologists as a reference. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 20:01, 20 March 2014 (PDT)

::::Only 1 translator called 85;4 as fire.[http://islamawakened.com/quran/85/4/] it many not necessarily be the usual future hell. I gave the source from wikipedia. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 09:08, 22 March 2014 (PDT)
:::::If the lack of detail was based on a historical event, then this should have been mentioned. And if only one translator used the word fire in 85:4 then you should have called the section heading "Makers of the Pit", not "Makers of the Pit of Fire" (I will change this now). Because if the fire translation is accepted then it could be easily argued that this is a poetic way of saying sinners are making their own place in hell, so it's not the Qur'an's lack of detail that is the problem, but the interpretations. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 10:02, 22 March 2014 (PDT)

::::::Saggy, why are you rushing everything and only making a half-hearted attempt at creating a decent article? Axius may disagree with me, and I'm not trying to discourage you, but my philosophy has always been, "if you're not going to do something properly, then don't do it at all". It is this that has led to us weeding out most of the weak articles and deleting them, resulting in a very high-quality wiki with a reputation for its accurate and articulate content. But when it comes to you, even your talk page messages are so rushed that it makes them hard to understand.

::::::See [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=WikiIslam:Sandbox/Qur%27anic_Claim_of_Having_Details&oldid=106203#Blowing_on_Knots this section] called "Blowing on Knots" that you wrote. You say about [http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/113-qmt.php#113.001 Qur'an 113:1-4] that, ''"One cannot understand who are those who blow on knots and why."'' This could be easily refuted by apologists. All they have to do is click on our verse reference that goes to the USC-MSA site an see that both of the other translators render it as ''"those who practise secret arts"'' and ''"the evil of malignant witchcraft"''. Then they can claim that WikiIslam are dishonest and are simply choosing the 1 translation that is most ambiguous and suited to "their agenda". Looking at the multiple translations available at [http://islamawakened.com/quran/113/4/default.htm islamawakened], most translators render it as something to do with witchcraft.

::::::I've now fixed that by removing the text you wrote and replacing it with, ''"Many translators identify those who blow on knots as "those who practice secret arts" or witchcraft, but this information is not found within the actual Qur'anic text. Others choose to translate it accurately as "those who blow on knots", which makes it impossible to identify who these people are and why they would do such a thing."'' But you were obviously aware of the situation (since you chose the 1 translation of the three that only mentions knots) so why did you not think to add this to the article? It was the same thing Qur'an 85:4 (discussed above this message). If you were aware of the uncertainty behind the meaning of this verse being discused by Muslim scholars so it confirms the fact that this verse lacks detail, why did you fail to mention it? You are rushing just to throw articles out there and this is resulting in your work being weak or incomprehensible. This is not how we do things. We do not choose quantity over quality. That may have been the case 5 years ago but not today.

::::::So can you please try to adjust you editing style accordingly? [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 08:32, 23 March 2014 (PDT)
:::::::ok. But I bet those claims against this site will never go away.--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 09:52, 23 March 2014 (PDT)
::::::::Thanks, Saggy. Of course. We know these claims will never go away. We are not doing it for those apologists who make these claims. We are doing it for all those people (Muslim and non-Muslim) who use us to learn about Islam and trust us for our accuracy. We need to be thorough and clear enough so that they have the information available to see that we are correct. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 10:05, 23 March 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::I agree with what Sahab said and in particular ''"We do not choose quantity over quality."''. As we can see Sahab did a lot of work [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=WikiIslam:Sandbox/Qur%27anic_Claim_of_Having_Details&offset=&limit=250&action=history] on the Details article. Thanks for that Sahab. Saggy please note Sahab's recommendations.
:::::::::Anyone can make any number of Sandbox articles, whether they're of poor or good quality. Picking those sandbox articles and finalizing them is entirely optional and is up to other users.
:::::::::So Saggy if you can do a good job in the Sandbox article, it makes it more likely that others will work on it and finalize the article. If its too difficult others can just add it to the [[tasks]] page to work on it in the future. If its added there, you can see that the tasks page contains lots of tasks so it will likely be a long time before anyone works on it. I would advise you to keep working on Sandbox articles as you have done but if you ask people to finalize it and it needs a lot of work, you can expect a reply like ''"it needs a lot of work (for example, X, Y Z) and at the moment I'm unable to work on it"''. In that case you can keep working on the article to the best of your ability (and make it rebuttal proof as best as you can). It can be added to the Tasks page if it needs a lot of fixing up. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 17:27, 24 March 2014 (PDT)

== Womb sentence ==

[http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/2/228/default.htm Here] see its second sentence. does it make enough of sense? some stray translator calls it "hiding pregnancy," but is it really something that can be hidden over time? especially in those old days? If it is unclear, it should go into some article.--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 12:46, 20 March 2014 (PDT)
:I think it sounds pretty clear. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 20:04, 20 March 2014 (PDT)
:: What does this mean? "Do not kill your children secretly, for the milk, with which a child is suckled while his mother is pregnant, overtakes the horseman and throws him from his horse."[http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/abudawud/028-sat.php#028.3872] [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 08:18, 2 April 2014 (PDT)
:::Why? [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 08:22, 2 April 2014 (PDT)
::::I think he just wants to know what the hadith means. Strange hadith. I dont know myself. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 09:56, 2 April 2014 (PDT)
:::::Appears to be claiming fetuses drink their mother's milk in the womb. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 10:01, 2 April 2014 (PDT)
::::::Whoa lol. Yea I think you're right. I dont know what that horseman thing means though. Funny. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 10:11, 2 April 2014 (PDT)
:::::::Yeah, I dunno what the "horseman" refers to either. It's probably the killer. And the milk thing sounds silly but it's not out of the ordinary for Islamic literature where the moon and sun are considered sentient beings and food likewise "praise Allah" or warn Muhammad of poisoning. Although we have to be careful with such things because while the former is a scientific error, the latter is a miracle. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 12:22, 2 April 2014 (PDT)
::::::::To put it somewhere.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 12:23, 2 April 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::Scientific Errors in the Hadith? (lol. I'm assuming it can't be argued that fetuses suckle on their mother's milk). [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 12:26, 2 April 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::So I was thinking the apologist could argue (as they do) but that the child in this quote is a child outside which has been born already: ''"with which a child is suckled while his mother is pregnant"''. In any case, this hadith could be in a "Other Hadiths" sub-section or wherever (its up to you guys). --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 14:57, 2 April 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::I'll fill in the details of every possible meaning. But if this is for the scientific error article, what title to give it? "Breast milk can overflow?"[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 12:23, 3 April 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::::Could be "Break milk is consumed by Fetus", etc.
:::::::::::But look what I found. I think this is interesting. I googled "greek science breast milk uterus" and I found this paper. Google "The History of the Knowledge of Reproductive Anatomy and Physiology " [https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=+The+History+of+the+Knowledge+of+Reproductive+Anatomy+and+Physiology+&oq=+The+History+of+the+Knowledge+of+Reproductive+Anatomy+and+Physiology] and click on the link from www.lab.anhb.uwa.edu.au
::::::::::::''ca 150 A.D. -- Galen – was a Greek Biologist and philosopher who practised medicine, was a surgeon to gladiators and a public demonstrator of anatomy.''
::::::::::::''He also believed women had two uteri ending in single neck. One of his theories was that if milk flows from the breasts of a pregnant woman, it is an indication that the foetus will be weak. His reasoning for this is; '''the breasts and uterus are joined by common vessels. The foetus inside the uterus is bathed in nutrients (milk)''', if this milk overflows to the breasts it is because the foetus is not strong enough to consume as much as it should be.''
:::::::::::Galen is mentioned on our site in other places too. [https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=galen+site%3Awikiislam.net&oq=galen+site%3Awikiislam.net site search]. Food for thought. I knew it could be connected to Greek science just like the Embryology/semen backbone stuff is copied from Greek science in Islamic texts. I would suggest the next steps as possibly finding more related hadiths and any Islamic scholar's comments on this hadith and then citing this paper to link them. There needs to be more study to see completely what the hadith means to say.
:::::::::::Then I added Galen to the search query [https://www.google.com/search?biw=1920&bih=852&q=greek+science+breast+milk+uterus+galen&oq=greek+science+breast+milk+uterus+galen greek science breast milk uterus galen]. Click on the PDF "Exploring gender: Islamic Perspectives on Breastfeeding" for more info.
:::::::::::Galen says in another link [http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/65/2/374] "so that if a nursing mother should become pregnant,", so it might be talking about a pregnant woman who is nursing another child. This is just more information. Saggy could you analyze this carefully or do more research before putting the hadith in to make sure we are not putting in any hadiths that can be explained. I have no additional input on this. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 15:12, 3 April 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::::The minimum error is that milk overflows. Where is the baby or how many babies are there does not matter. I'll insert this and its better to see if somebody tries to refute or explain the rest of words later. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 04:00, 4 April 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::::::[http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=Scientific_Errors_in_the_Hadith&curid=9085&diff=106600&oldid=106482] "there can be only some leakage of milk", can qualify for "A Pregnant woman's milk can overflow". Technically "some leakage" is "overflow". --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 04:30, 4 April 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::::::No, it throws a horseman! All i found was this denial-[http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=91918] and another where a guy will make 60 women pregnant and their kids will become horsemen of war[http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/015-smt.php] - it maybe related to our subject of child/horseman but it does not clarify the milk. neway I read some breastfeeding facts and wrote down.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 04:36, 4 April 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::::::::Let me think- mother or somebody else may have planned to kill the foetus ( but i am not sure if this was possible). If it is killed what happens to the milk? overflow, at best. If she's pregnant and feeds a second child and this child is to be killed, again the milk may be excess. the horseman falling must be the exagerration and it is best to point that out. I checked more - only breastfeed woman leaks often. but pregnant plus breastfeeder can be sometimes low on milk supply.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 04:51, 4 April 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::::::::Added ref for decreased milk. The ref template needs some fixes. i see it later, i've to go.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 05:05, 4 April 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::::::::::Ok, I think I understand now. The hadith says that it will always be the case that overflow happens for a pregnant breast feeding woman. I still dont get the logic behind the hadith "Dont kill your child because otherwise the milk wont overflow" ... ? Must be some background on the hadith as to whats going on. Yea I saw that link. I googled [https://www.google.com/search?biw=1920&bih=852&q=%22overtakes+the+horseman+and+throws+him+from+his+horse.%22&oq=%22overtakes+the+horseman+and+throws+him+from+his+horse.%22&gs_l=serp.3...12123.12994.0.13351.3.3.0.0.0.0.85.251.3.3.0....0...1c.1.39.serp..3.0.0.KbC8LzjI35c "overtakes the horseman and throws him from his horse"] and saw a few more links. Here's another [http://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=320733] which is about intercourse and other stuff.:
::::::::::::::::::''Imam Abu Sulaiman Al Khattabi explaining the hadith says, “The Prophet (pbuh) is indicating that when the husband has intercourse with his breastfeeding wife, which results in pregnancy, it reduces her milk, thus depriving the suckling child, as it is being nourished from that milk, hence weakening the suckling child”. (Ma’aalim Al Sunan of Imam Abu Sulaiman Al Khattabi)''
::::::::::::::::: and this quote (note the interpretation of horseman etc):
::::::::::::::::::''The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "…gheelah (pregnancy during the period of breastfeeding) overtakes the rider and throws him from the horse." ('''Reported by Abu Dawud, this means''' that the child who nurses from a pregnant mother will suffer from it in later life like a horseman who is thrown from his horse.)"''
:::::::::::::::::There may be additional information in the google link about the horseman phrase. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 05:08, 4 April 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::::::::::And after Googling that phrase ("this means ....") I found only two links, one of which was that forum and the other is this [http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-the-scholar/family/pregnancy-and-newborns/175346.html?newborns=]. So I think this hadith may not be a good choice after addition after all but check all of this information and see for yourself. You can also get additional scientific error Hadiths from this page: [[Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Islamic_Silliness]]. You can copy the ones that can be shown as scientific errors. Its ok to have one hadith shown in multiple pages. But yes continue with your hadith scanning/search because we know there are more errors/things found in Hadith than Quran verses. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 05:23, 4 April 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::::::::::::I searched for "Romans persians" and got this [http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/008-smt.php] Book 008, Number 3391 is what they seem to call gheelah. But gheelah does not appear linked to "kill children" nor to the fall from horse. Its tiring; verifying such claims. What analogy did they say: Child will suffer the same as a horseback fall? is it due to milk in any way? This fall-suffer analogy is strange, it seems like all those miracle claims derived from half sentences. The subject is clearly milk, not child. but they changed it to child to brush it away. So you have googled and thrown light(lol) on two separate parts: If the second half is an analogy, the first is not clear. If we understand or assume the first, the second is not clear. "Milk throws the horseman from the horse" looks the same as "sperm flows between backbone and ribs." By now, a whole article could be made on this mess if needed.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 09:15, 4 April 2014 (PDT)
{{outdent}} (outdented)''"This fall-suffer analogy is strange"'' - the apologist will quote Abu Dawaud and claim that its not referring to overflow but punishment later on. I would suggest to move on to something else as things are not as clear as we would like them to be (unless additional evidence can be found). The problem is the meaning of the hadith is not clear, and we cannot claim that horseman refers to overflow (without evidence that says so). --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 09:28, 4 April 2014 (PDT)
:That is what I was trying to say - such an apologist cant show which word refers to what, ''satisfactorily.'' (is it "milk" that refers to punishment?) I had said the sperm thing on realising that the first guy who pointed out the sperm-flow error did not expect that apologists will give 10 different interpretations, half of them twisting the original words. They are all debunked. Same may happen here. We should take the hadith literally unless there is strong evidence for different meanings in it.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 10:06, 4 April 2014 (PDT)
::Agreed that it should be taken literally. Literally it just says "horseman taking over the horse". Anything else (overflow or punishment) needs a reference. I would suggest adding the hadith to some kind of "to do" page where hadiths of interest are listed so it can be looked at again when there's more information. If the hadith literally said something about over flow or punishment or lack of milk for the other baby etc, it would be another situation. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 10:10, 4 April 2014 (PDT)
:::I think that hadith should not be added to the list. I do not get "A Pregnant woman's milk can overflow" from a literal reading. In the end, a literal reading is all that matters because anything else is an interpretation and can be argued against. Ultimately, this is just one odd hadith out of literally thousands of odd hadith, so I don't see any importance in this. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 00:28, 5 April 2014 (PDT)
::::Ok. Yes, the concept ofoverflow is not mentioned explictly and one interpretation says it means something else.
::::Saggy, I would to reiterate the need for adding content that is "rebuttal" proof. You said ''"Its tiring; verifying such claims."''. Yes its more work making sure new content is strong and of high quality but [[What_People_Say_About_WikiIslam|its worth it]]. If you want you can add the Hadith to your own "to do" page/section where you can continue the research (in which case make sure you add the reference to the Abu Dawud meaning of suffering I found). Again, do look at the [[Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Islamic_Silliness|Silliness]] hadiths to see if any can be added from there to the Science errors page. Many hadiths/verses are easy decisions to insert if the meanings are clear (this kind of hadith is not found often). Easy or not, all new content still needs a careful look to make sure it is acceptable.
::::Its nice that you have been researching hadiths and verses and some of your other additions have been fine so yea, continue that. I recommend you do it like this as its easier: Put all of the interesting verses and hadiths you come across in your own temporary Sandbox page, and when you have a certain number, start inserting them into the relevant pages (after a good review). And then you can go back and search some more. This is easier than finding one quote, inserting, finding another and inserting etc. In the Sandbox you also have more freedom to write what you want until its finalized: [[User:Saggy/Sandbox]], [[User:Saggy/Sandbox for QHS]]. etc --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 05:23, 5 April 2014 (PDT)

== Editor centric navigation==

Lets see how these changes look. I moved all visitor related links to the top and the Editor related links to the left for easier access. Visitors who are 99% of the people visiting this site can look in that Navigation box while Editors can see what they want on the left for easier access. In my opinion Editors are more important than visitors. We can get visitors and thats easy; we already have a lot of them so lets pay more importance to editing which is a problem. This is more inviting to editors and its telling them they are important. Lets see how it feels for a while. The bad thing is its pushing content down but there's no other way for now.

Later we can also try reverting and moving everything below Editing. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 15:18, 26 April 2014 (PDT)
:Reverting back for now with a few changes - Editing section is given higher priority, Recent changes is moved to Editing, policies and Core principles have also been moved to Editing.
:Still trying to find a good menu navigation system. Making the site look like Wikipedia is not a priority. A site is not judged to be good because it looks like Wikipedia but because it has good content and is easy to navigate and makes it easy for people to find what they're looking for (this is good web design). Making it easy for people to navigate the site is of higher priority. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 19:20, 28 April 2014 (PDT)
::There is a public Mediawiki extension called "Breadcrumbs" (well, there are even TWO !). Maybe that can help ? [[User:François Paganel|François Paganel]] ([[User talk:François Paganel|talk]]) 18:45, 15 December 2014 (PST)
:::The [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:BreadCrumbs first] is a strange way of doing breadcrumbs. The [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:BreadCrumbs2 2nd] is the right one which will need manual creation of the breadcrumb data. Its up to Sahab and I can install it if he wants that. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 05:33, 16 December 2014 (PST)

== Introducing our editors to the readers ==

What can be done to make the site more inviting and more likely to connect with our readers and most importantly, potential editors? I've always thought of a page where we can list our significant current and past (retired) editors. Even if there are only a few people to mention it could be done. An summary of the kind of work they've done would be nice. That recognition would be nice and people would be interested in seeing who is doing what.

I feel this will make people more interested in joining the website as an editor when they feel a social connection to the site.

Any thoughts? --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 05:36, 5 July 2014 (PDT)

== Invites to Notable Internet critics of Islam ==

Both of these people are very knowledgeable about Islam and I would like to invite them to join our site:
* KlingsChor ([http://www.youtube.com/user/Klingschor Youtube], [http://klingschor.blogspot.com/ Blog], [https://twitter.com/Klingschor Twitter]) and
* TheRationalizer ([http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRationalizer Youtube], [http://therationaliser.blogspot.com/ Blog], [https://twitter.com/TheRationaliser Twitter])

I'm in touch with TheRationalizer and have told him that I hope he joins us. I commented on Klingschor's Youtube channel and invited him too but he may not have read it so I will try to create a formal invitation and deliver the invite to them personally and we can also show the invite on the website (which can also be an introduction for them containing information about the internet presence and their areas of interest).

Anyone else who should be on this list? --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 11:52, 5 July 2014 (PDT)

== How to Add a translation to an article ==

I have translated a complete article to another language in my sandbox. Now I need a step by step process how to add this translation in the language catagory.

Should I edit the main English article and paste my own translation in the wikitext after deleting the main article and then submit my changes for approval?

== Swedish translation ==

Greetings. I have plenty of Wiki experience from gaming wikis and I thought I may be able to help out here a bit now and then. Primarily I may want to start translating articles into Swedish. Sweden is quite prominent in certain aspects of Islam, especially since we have a large minority muslims and our government caters to the more fundamentalist aspects of Islam (they, both sides, seem to have no clue about the difference between moderate and fundamental followers of the religion) and I think there may be an interest for some of these articles in Swedish.

I'm happy to translate things as I go along, and I was thinking of starting pretty soon, but what articles do you think are most prominent and best candidates for translations? A question could be about which pages are visited the most etc.

Mind you that Swedes have a very good knowledge of English, in most cases, so many things can easily remain in English, such as the Quran stuff. I can't be bothered to find a Swedish Quran and copy all your hard work. I'm thinking more general articles on abrogations and stuff like that.

Open for suggestions!

[[User:Leord|Leord]] ([[User talk:Leord|talk]]) 01:57, 20 August 2014 (PDT)

:Here is the list: [[WikiIslam:Translations]] You can go ahead with it in a sandbox. See [[Abrogation]] it has 3 articles, I think they are complete and hence fit for translation but take a second opinion on them. More links in [[Contradictions and Errors]]. Then there is [[WikiIslam:Site Map]] and Tasks to pick anything of your choice. Another interesting article is [[Questions to Ask About Islam]] but it keeps receiving some additions. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 04:42, 20 August 2014 (PDT)
:Hi Leord, thanks for joining. Yea it would be great to have some articles in Swedish. You can do the Abrogation articles if you like but how about [[72 Virgins]]. This will remain a popular topic and there's a lot of wrong information for this topic that needs to be challenged. Other articles on our [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Translations#Articles_to_Translate Translation] page include [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Killings_Ordered_or_Supported_by_Muhammad List of killings by Muhammad], [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Health_Effects_of_Islamic_Dress Health effects of Islamic dress] (if there are many Hijabs, Veils seen in Sweden), [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Invitations_to_Islam_Prior_to_Violence Invitations to Violence], etc. Let me know what you want to start and I'll make a page for you that you can directly edit. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 05:10, 20 August 2014 (PDT)
:: Brilliant guys, quick reply as well, nice. Cool, I will look into these over the next couple of days. As I said, Swedes are generally very proficient in English, so this is more a means to make it feel "more like home" for some parts of the possible audience than an essential service. As such I don't think the Swedish section will ever need a sub-domain, but it's better to simply link freely to English articles from the Swedish ones, and then have a translation choice on the English for the pertient ones you pointed out. It will probably take me a while to sort it all out.
:: I am also pretty used to both editing and article writing, so I'll give them all a once-over for grammar, wording, meaning, etc before I start. Probably won't hurt, anyway. :) 10:01, 20 August 2014 (PDT)
:::Ok, sounds good. Let me know here when you have a choice. Good to know Swedish people are somewhat familiar with english. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 19:45, 20 August 2014 (PDT)

== Making Pages easier to find ==

Upon doing a Google search for 'Taqiyya' (and all it's spelling variants)I was surprised and disappointed to find that wikislam did not come up (at least not in the first 5 pages). I'm not sure what (if anything) can be done to fix this, so I thought I should mention it. It is likely that this is an issue with other pages/topics/terms as well. I was thinking that the reason is due to the fact that there is no specific Taqiyya Page with the term Taqiyya in the title. I was wondering if I, or preferably a more experienced editor, could create a page specifically on the topic of Taqiyya or just create the page and have a link to http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Lying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Yaakov|Yaakov]] ([[User talk:Yaakov|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Yaakov|contribs]]) {{#if:12:20, 20 August 2014‎| 12:20, 20 August 2014‎|}} ([[WikiIslam:Signatures#Signing_Posts|Remember to sign your comments]]) 

: Sounds like a good idea to me. That is a start, the next step is also to get people to link the pages, THAT really adds google ranking. [[User:Leord|Leord]] ([[User talk:Leord|talk]]) 13:17, 20 August 2014 (PDT)
::"Taqiyya" could become a redirect. I am not sure if it will affect the Google hits as a redirect. @Axius, can you look into it? [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 13:21, 20 August 2014 (PDT)
::: Unless you get hundreds of pages to link to the redirect, then NO, it does not. However, for SEO purposes, it's better to have separate articles with more specialised content linking each other (somethimes it's better with one bigger article, it depends, but in THIS case it would be ideal). Taqiyya is a very prominant concept when tackling Islam, I definitely think it would help to make sure it had its own article. I have quite a background in web... [[User:Leord|Leord]] ([[User talk:Leord|talk]]) 13:25, 20 August 2014 (PDT)
::::Taqiyya already redirects to [[Lying]]. There is a reason why we don't have a page on Taqiyya (and hopefully never will); it is seen as a predominantly Shi'ite practice used by them to save their own lives. Lying to non-Muslims to forward Islam is supported by Muslim texts, that is why we cover it all in [[Lying_-_Primary_Sources|Lying (Primary Sources)]]. But as soon as critics mislabel it as "Taqiyya" they lose all credibility. We call it what it is; lying. No fancy words needed. Of course we do have a section within there that covers Taqiyya but that is only a small part of the entire subject. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 13:35, 20 August 2014 (PDT)
:::::I would be in favor of having a (small) page on Taqiya to tell people what it is and what its not (so everyone can know including critics of Islam) and it can link to Lying but its to Sahab and he says there shouldnt be a page on it so there. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 12:25, 21 August 2014 (PDT)
::::::Actually Ax, your idea of having a stub on the subject is a good idea if done right. It should basically say taqiyya simply refers to Muslims lying to protect themselves (certainly not what these editors are suggesting, to conflate a single aspect of lying with the entire subject of lying itself). It literally only has to be a few sentences long. It would, once and for all, put an end to people trying to smear this site by claiming WikiIslam supports the idea of taqiyya specifically referring to Muslims being allowed to lie freely to everyone. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 10:57, 22 August 2014 (PDT)
:::::::Axius, I've created that page now[http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Taqiyya] (it's a mix of my writing and the dhimmi views from Wikipedia). Let me know what you think. I would stress the need to watch that page carefully. If editors start editing it and claiming lying = taqiyya then it would impact the site's accuracy and credibility in a big way. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 13:08, 22 August 2014 (PDT)
::::::::Yup great job, looks great. Its definitely better to have this stub for everyone's sake. I havent tried to understand it in detail but I get the general idea. If anyone wants to change the article they would have to get pretty authentic sources to change the meanings. I was also not clear on the meaning of the term myself until a few years ago so its good to have this page for everyone. Seeing this page and the QHS:Lying page, many people will realize these are two different things and the QHS:Lying of course is a unique collection not available anywhere else. This should also make people who wanted to have a page on it. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 16:38, 22 August 2014 (PDT)

==Reviewing==
Guys, you are invited to review my edits. There are too many and the admins currently do not have time to review them. They are major additions proposed at [[User:Saggy/Sandbox - Issues with Quran and Hadith]]; categorised by article. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 05:16, 22 August 2014 (PDT)

== Inspired by Muhammad: Dog Hadiths ==

Hello. I looked at the links to the Hadiths concerning killing dogs and restricting to killing black dogs from this page: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Inspired_by_Muhammad#Killing_Dogs

It seems that the links do not take you to the hadiths you are quoting. Maybe the site was updated or whoever created the page made a mistake. I thought you should know.

Specifically, it's the Sahih Muslim 16:2840 and Sahih Muslim 16:2839.

I think the hadiths are Abu-Dawud: http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/abudawud/016-sat.php [[User:Paul99|Paul99]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 16:46, 28 August 2014 (GMT)

== How do I upload content from files ? ==

I have A LOT of content

^^^^ Hey, guys, you sure did not think about people using other font size than yours ! The icon menu overlapped the text zone on my system (Linux Mint 17) ;-)

OK. I have a WHOLE LOT of French texts about islam, that I wrote myself, (PDF, LibreOffice...) and even a French Mediawiki database (which I have on my computer for persnal use, but which is not connected to the Net) about the subject. Do you have use for them ? How can I upload them, if the answer is yes ?

More details here : https://www.facebook.com/groups/738034866282996/

The database in MySql dump format can be downloaded from there under the name xxx.txt.
The PDF "Monsieur Ha Ca" can be downloaded from there too. [[User:François Paganel|François Paganel]] ([[User talk:François Paganel|talk]]) 18:42, 15 December 2014 (PST)
:Do wikipedia pages come out ok? How about The main [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki Mediawiki] site? Your OS is not a common choice so its probably not worth trying to fix it.
:For your other content it depends on what the quality is. Please dont upload anything before showing a sample of the writing. Also currently we dont have any french editors on the site to review the material. Can you upload it on a regular website like a blog, or just make a temporary sandbox here for one of your pages you want to show? That facebook page shows an error (not available). Its strange that you've uploaded a Mediawiki wiki database... to Facebook.com? I dont understand how thats possible. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 05:38, 16 December 2014 (PST)

::Hi François. Without a trusted French administrator who understands this site's policies and guidelines, it is not possible for us to fully judge the quality of original works, hence why the policies state that sub-domains can only be started when there are a front page's worth of translations (about 25-35 articles) and one reliable editor, and only then are they "free to evolve separately to the English site in style and {{underline|content}}".

::The content may be great, but we have no way to evaluate it completely. Looking at what you wrote on your user page isn't encouraging, it suggests to me that the content will most likely be breaking a whole host of WikiIslam's policies, both for style and content.

::Speaking of user pages, I have deleted those promotional links from there. You have not read the "[[WikiIslam:Message to New Users|Message to New Users]]", otherwise you'd know our policies concerning them (see: [[WikiIslam:User Names and Pages]]). Links are allowed after 50 positive edits (i.e. main space edits that are not reverted or need to be fixed by others).

::Instead of your original content, why not consider translating existing English pages into French? If you like that idea, you can learn how to do that on [[WikiIslam:Instructions for Translators]].

::Anyhow, please do read the "[[WikiIslam:Message to New Users|Message to New Users]]" before making any more contributions to the wiki. Thanks. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 09:44, 16 December 2014 (PST)
:::"Its strange that you've uploaded a Mediawiki wiki database... to Facebook.com?"
:::I mean I updated of course its MySQL '''dump''' in ASCII form so anybody can recreate it quickly on his/her own machine. 3,8 Mo (3 758 022 octets) :-) [[User:François Paganel|François Paganel]] ([[User talk:François Paganel|talk]]) 13:06, 21 December 2014 (PST)

== Translations ==

Hi Wikiislam i am former editor of Sekulyarizm.org first Azerbaijan website about atheist and criticism of İslam.I want to help Wikiislam about translation of articles into Azerbaijani language.I would be happy if you help me about this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Aykhan|Aykhan]] ([[User talk:Aykhan|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Aykhan|contribs]]) {{#if:| |}} ([[WikiIslam:Signatures#Signing_Posts|Remember to sign your comments]]) 
:hi, welcome to the site. Please see [[WikiIslam:Instructions for Translators]] for instructions. [[List of Killings Ordered or Supported by Muhammad]] is a good choice. Also we have two or three articles from that website [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Category:Sekulyarizm.org]. It might have been you who was the original author of those articles. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 15:37, 21 January 2015 (PST)
I started to translate that article but i can't move it to translations section please help
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Sandbox/M%C9%99h%C9%99mm%C9%99d_t%C9%99r%C9%99find%C9%99n_sifari%C5%9F_v%C9%99_yaxud_d%C9%99st%C9%99kl%C9%99n%C9%99n_q%C9%99tll%C9%99r

==Pederasty and Racism by Muhammad. ==

Volunteer needed! Editors! Help me to create the topic Pederasty by Muhamad.

I believe Pederasty by Muhammad and also Racism should be core topics.

I added this remark to the topic racism:

" This text suggests that Muhammad invented the systematic enslavement of Africans and that all enslavement of Africans was inspired by him:
{{Quote|{{Tabari|2|p. 11}}|"Shem, the son of Noah was the father of the Arabs, the Persians, and the Greeks; Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and of Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. '''He prayed that the African's color would change''' so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks."}} "

Here some stuff for a Pederasty by Muhammad topic-page:

Pederasty by Muhammad:
Pasted from https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/hadith-prophet-muhammad-kissed-the-penis-of-small-boys/comment-page-1/ :
" “And there shall wait on them [the Muslim men] young boys of their own, as fair as virgin pearls.”

Hadith Number 16245, Volume Title: “The Sayings of the Syrians,” Chapter Title: “Hadith of Mu’awiya Ibn Abu Sufyan”:

“I saw the prophet – pbuh – sucking on the tongue or the lips of Al-Hassan son of Ali, may the prayers of Allah be upon him. For no tongue or lips that the prophet sucked on will be tormented (by hell fire)

He (the Prophet) lift up his (al Hassan’s) shirt and kissed his (little) penis..” ﻦﻴﺴﺤﻟاوأ ﻦﺴﺤﻟا ﺔﺒﻴﺑز ﻞﺒﻗ ﻢﻠﺳو ﻪﻴﻠﻋ ﷲ ﻰﻠﺻ ﻪﻧأ ىور He (the prophet) kissed the (little) penis of al Hassan or al Husein ﻪﺘﺒﻴﺑز ﻞﺒﻗو ﻦﻴﺴﺤﻟا يﺬﺨﻓ ﻦﻴﺑ ﺎﻣ جﺮﻓ ﻢﻠﺳ و ﻪﻴﻠﻋ ﷲ ﻰﻠﺻ ﻲﺒﻨﻟا ﺖﻳأر He (the prophet) put Husein’s legs apart and kissed his (little) penis

Another Hadith. Majma al-Zawa’id, Ali ibn Abu Bakr al-Haythami, 299/9 ﻦﺴﺣ هدﺎﻨﺳإو ﻲﻧاﺮﺒﻄﻟا هاور ﻪﺘﺒﻴﺑز ﻞﺒﻗ و ﻦﻴﺴﺤﻟا يﺬﺨﻓ ﻦﻴﺑ ﺎﻣ جﺮﻓ ﻢﻠﺳو ﻪﻴﻠﻋ ﷲ ﻰﻠﺻ ﷲ لﻮﺳر ﺖﻳأر

ﻲﻤﺜﻴﻬﻟا ﺮﻜﺑ ﻰﺑأ ﻦﺑ ﻲﻠﻌﻟﺪﺋاوﺰﻟا ﻊﻤﺠﻣ translated into English: “I saw the Messenger of Allah pbuh putting Husein’s legs apart and kissing his (little) penis.”

Related by Al-Tabarani and it’s authentication is fully validated by Islamic scholars.

Hussein and Hassan is not the same name, so clearly this is of two accounts and he kissed more than one penis."

Pasted from http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2014/04/yahya-snow-advocates-sucking-on-tongues.html?m=1:

"Al-Adab al-Mufrad al-Bukhari 1183—It is related that Abu Hurayra said, "I never saw al-Hasan without my eyes overflowing with tears. That is because the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, went out one day and I found him in the mosque. He took my hand and I went along with him. He did not speak to me until we reached the market of Banu Qaynuqa. He walked around it and looked. Then he left and I left with him until we reached the mosque. He sat down and wrapped himself in his garment. Then he said, 'Where is the little one? Call the little one to me.' Hasan came running and jumped into his lap. Then he put his hand in his beard. Then the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, opened his mouth and put his tongue in his mouth. Then he said, O Allah, I love him, so love him and the one who loves him!'" (Al-Adab al-Mufrad Al-Bukhari, Number 1183)

Musnad Ahmad 16245—[Mua’wiya said]: I saw the prophet sucking on the tongue or the lips of Al-Hassan son of Ali, may the prayers of Allah be upon him. For no tongue or lips that the prophet sucked on will be tormented (by hell fire)." —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Guide|Guide]] ([[User talk:Guide|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Guide|contribs]]) {{#if: 20:00, 20 February 2015 | 20:00, 20 February 2015 |}} ([[WikiIslam:Signatures#Signing_Posts|Remember to sign your comments]]) 

:First of of all, before attempting to make any more contributions, please read the "[[WikiIslam:Message to New Users]]" in its entirety and follow whatever instructions are applicable to you.

:Secondly, I have removed your edits to Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Racism‎. What you wrote was absolute rubbish. Enslavement of Africans existed long before Prophet Muhammad was born. The Curse of Ham nonsense already existed in the Jewish Talmud long before Muhammad was born, and I doubt the European Neanderthals who enslaved Africans where inspired specifically by Muhammad. A case could probably be made that the resurgence of slavery or its perpetuance among Europeans was "inspired" to some degree by the actions of their Muslim contemporaries, but that's hardly the same thing.

:Thirdly, we will not be making racism and pederasty into core topics. To be a core topic, it has to be very general in its scope and there must be a lot of material to justify its status. If we had an article on "pederasty" it would belong in the "Pedophilia" core topic which obviously encompasses such things as that.

:Fourthly, we do not exaggerate or take issues out of context here. Muhammad may qualify as a modern-day pedophile, but he was a heterosexual pedophile, not a homosexual one. Nothing you have quoted here suggests otherwise. I would think anyone who is an ex-Muslim or is familiar with Middle-Eastern culture would realize that. Actually, I'm sure the tongue kiss thing is used somewhere here as an argument for pedophilia, but it is inaccurate so I will remove it. Thanks. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 07:05, 21 February 2015 (PST)

== Romanian translation ==

Hi people, I want to translate this in Romanian. I have edited on Wikipedia a few years ago, I think I can manage...
How this starts, what shall I do? [[User:Michael|Michael]] ([[User talk:Michael|talk]]) 17:23, 17 August 2015 (PDT)
:I would like to see a translation of [[72 Virgins]]. We have others listed here [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Translations#Articles_to_Translate]. If you tell me which article you want to do and its translated title, I can make a copy of that page that you can edit.
:I also renamed that image to a better file name and inserted a disclaimer. See this part of the [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Frequently_Asked_Questions#What_is_the_religious_persuasion_of_the_contributors_to_WikiIslam.3F FAQ]. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 18:27, 17 August 2015 (PDT)

== My idea ==

Here is my idea:

TEXTS TO BE USED

1. "Sirat Rasul Allah" pages 111-690 (minus poetry and lists of names).

2. Bukhari/Muslim with repetition cut out.

3. The Qur'an.

INSTRUCTIONS

We start with 1. It will serve as the "skeleton".

Some of 2 describe specific events (2a) and some of 2 do not describe specific events (2b).

We insert 2a into the text of 1, where the events occur.

We insert 2b where the topic arises in 1's text.

Finally, we insert the verses of 3 where they were revealed. (Both 1 and 2 tell us where verses were revealed).

When this is completed, it would serve as an authoritative, one-stop reference. It would be the totality of Islam in one document.

-Enterusername
:What makes the totality of Islam is subjective. There are other texts too. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 22:30, 4 September 2015 (PDT)

Other texts can be included. "Good" Hadiths can be included in number 2 as well.
If this was completed, it would serve as the totality of ''authoritative knowledge'' about Islam.
:You can work on it if you like (in the sandbox space first). I can tell you how to start. It would fall under the [[essay]] category. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 07:20, 5 September 2015 (PDT)

== Article Idea ==

I have an idea for an article:

A complete list of all the events that occurred between Muhammad, the Quraysh, and the Jews, along with a final moral analysis.

WikiIslam:Discussions/Editor Discussions

2015-09-05T13:22:44Z

Enterusername: /* My idea */

WikiIslam:Discussions/Editor Discussions

2015-09-05T03:33:33Z

Enterusername: /* My idea */ new section

WikiIslam:Discussions/Visitor Inquiries

2015-08-19T00:08:06Z

Enterusername: /* Question about Islamic Texts */ new section

{{Template:Discussions}} [[Category:Help Pages]]
'''''This page is for inquiries from visitors concerning the wiki itself, not for general questions about Islam. All new discussion topics should be created at the bottom of the page, below all previous discussions, and all messages should comply with [[WikiIslam:Talk Pages|talk page guidelines]].'''''


==Donations==

Terrific job guys -- keep up the good work. Do you have a donate button? Haqir
:Welcome Haqir and thanks! Yes we do. You can find it [[WikiIslam:Join_Our_Team#Donations|here]] --[[User:Admin3|Admin3]] 00:12, 26 October 2011 (PDT)

== Link ==

Can someone give this link a good home? [http://www.islam-watch.org/iw-new/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=259:sexual-slavery-and-concubinage-in-islam&catid=111:fakhour&Itemid=58 Islam-Watch.org:sexual-slavery-and-concubinage-in-islam ]
:Done. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] 08:50, 28 November 2009 (PST)

==Help==
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justification_of_Terrorism_in_Islam

Some muslims i think are trying to Delete this article. because it shows what islam really teaches

Please help me.

go here, which is a the place to discuss wether the article should be deleted or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Justification_of_Terrorism_in_Islam

and '''write keep in the discussion'''. So it doesnt get deleted.

Also pelase dont act islamphobic over there. Because you know wikipedia sucks up to Islam/ and if you cant islamaphobic it will be deleted. {{unsigned|86.18.223.124}}
:There's no such thing as Islamophobia, but I know what you mean. The problem is that there are active dawa teams over on WikiPedia - at least two that I know of; the Sunni side and the Shia side. Their main purpose is to keep the wiki articles over there presenting Islam in the best possible light. Of course the minor goal of each team is to present themselves as the "right sect" and the others as "wrong"; so at any given time, depending on who edited last (Sunni/Shia) then the Sunni's are the minority who are going to burn in hell, or vice versa. So I understand the problem you are having; and that is the REASON why WikiIslamn was created in the first place, due to frustration of editors because legitimate content would keep getting removed because of these teams and also the dhimmi ignoramuses.

:But hey, thanks for calling us "islamophobes" - really appreciated (NOT). [[User:Sanitarium|Sanitarium]] 20:27, 14 November 2009 (PST) 

== Question about Koran Translations online ==

I hope this is the right place to pose a question.

I have decided to devote some time every day to reading the koran hadith et all.

1 I have read here that many translations have been whitewashed. Is there an accurate translation online I can access?

2 I have found a site that seems good (it is by and for muslims and has mulitple translations by Ahmed Raza Khan (Mohammed Aqib Qadri), Yusuf Ali and Pickthal. These translations of each line are presented side by side. There is another site with a translation by H M Shakir

But before I devote time to reading from these sites-

a) It is said that the Koran is arranged in "order" from largest chapter to shortest. But on the site I found that isn't a smooth shift from most verses to least verses. This is what I mean:
Chap 5 120 verses
chap 6 165 verses
chap 7 206 verses
chap 8 75 verses
chap 9 129 verses
chap 10 109 verses

And so on. What I Really need to know is- '''Are there verses being intenionally left out in these translations?''' Or is it amount of words per chapter only, not number of verses that determines the length?
:This page is for issues about anything on WikiIslam, not general Islam stuff. This is the right place ,the FFI forum -> [http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewforum.php?f=21]. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] 15:46, 11 January 2011 (PST)

== IRC?==

Have you considered opening a chat room like #wikiislam on irc.freenode.net where dialogue can occur between skeptics and Muslims in chat? --[[User:Sonja|Sonja]] 20:59, 28 January 2011 (PST)
:That would be nice but there's only a few of us regular editors here and we dont have the time to chat or moderate chat. People are asked to go to forums on other websites. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] 21:05, 28 January 2011 (PST)

== Jannah ==

I can't seem to find an article specifically on paradise - there's one for Jahannam but not for Jannah. I know the site's purpose is to criticize Islam but I think a pretty good case can be made against the Islamic heaven (sex slavery, no broadband etc.). I'm not a scholar of Islam so I'm reluctant to start one myself. -[[User:Orange124|Orange124]] 10:39, 2 June 2011 (PDT)

:Yeah, ATM we do have some articles related to heaven (72 virgins etc.) and a lot of primary sources ([http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Heaven here]) but we have no main/general article discussing everything. I'll add it to our to-do list. Thanks! --[[User:Admin3|Admin3]] 10:42, 2 June 2011 (PDT)

==Any interest in project to categorize the koran verses for sql database?==

i've described it at FFI forum post & currently just getting started

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10270

one approach would be for me to post an article with all the koran verses & initial category assignments (or something i'm new at this wiki stuff) and let people edit the verses to assign categories, then download the article & use as new data for the sql queries

defining the categories & assigning them to the verses is a very open ended task and can be done ranging from simple (a flat category structure & maybe a dozen categories) to complex (a 10 level category tree with 100s of categories)

for me the appeal is having functionality to query the verses based on categories, like - show all verses with categories = violence against unbelievers, show all verses with categories = theology and legal (or however the lack of seperation church/state is represented in the cats)

just having a list of verses & categories is nice but not sure how useful this list is unless can query or show them somehow. example website with verses categorized is the skeptics etc
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/Quran/

thanks
:Hi Ecks, thanks for your reply to my message on the FFI forum about that post you linked. The main problem is that there arent many editors on this site, its just me and Gabe right now and we dont have any time to work on this, so you'll have to do everything yourself but we can guide you. On the wiki you can make pages and links and tables and so on. There arent any database functions. 6000 verses means it will be a huge project for one person
:I saw the site you linked in your reply [http://www.cspipublishing.com/statistical/index.html], the graphs look good.
:We can teach how to make Wiki pages and edit here, and answer your questions, but basically you're on your own and you'll have to judge if what you want to do can be wholelly or partially achieved on this site. You can tell us what features you need and we can tell what is possible here and you can see if it will meet your needs. This wiki atmosphere is text based: links between pages, images, tables (sortable) etc. -- [[User:Axius|Axius]] 17:27, 26 July 2011 (PDT)
::Hi Axius - ok i will just continue as planned & when i get closer to being finished then explore posting more info here at wikiislam. it's clearly possible to do a flat category structure just using html & links into koran verses (thats what the skeptics site does) but i wanted more than that :) which is why i'm planning for sql. automating all that page creation is the way to go, some jscript to read the sql data & emit the html pages, then just upload them etc
:::Ok sounds good. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] 16:25, 27 July 2011 (PDT)

this project fizzled out. i learned alot but not worth the effort to finish, see the post mortem notes at FFI link about. i guess this whole entry can be deleted ?
--[[User:Ecks why|Ecks why]] 14:07, 5 September 2011 (PDT)
:Thats ok, this will be archived when the we archive all the sections on this page. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] 14:44, 5 September 2011 (PDT)

::Terrific idea. Should be done sometime. -Haqir

== WikiIslam run by the same guy?==

I notice this website is neutral to biased against islam.
Is this website writen by many christians?
As the christianwiki, is definately extremely pro christian biased. —The preceding [[WikiIslam:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:60.242.71.160|60.242.71.160]] ([[User talk:60.242.71.160|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/60.242.71.160|contribs]]) {{#if:04:19, 13 March 2012| on 04:19, 13 March 2012|}} 

:This wiki is an independent one, so if you're trying to suggest there is some sort of connection with this site to other wikis, you'd be wrong. Doing a quick Google search, I found that there is a [http://wikichristian.org/index.php/Main_Page WikiChristian], and they are pro-Christian. It would be, considering it is obviously owned by a Christian and they make this clear by having a "Statement of Faith" and the first words you read on the main page is "Welcome to WikiChristian! God bless you."

:The owner of WikiIslam is atheist, and the majority of editors/contributors are either atheist or agnostic. There are also Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim and Zoroastrian editors/contributors. But seriously, how is the religious affiliation of editors a concern for anyone? The wiki is open to all critics so long as they adhere to our policies and guildlines. If their personal beliefs go against TOE, which the site supports, it's not our concern, and we're not in the habit of interrogating our editors and contributors.

:BTW, that has been covered in our FAQ already ([http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Frequently_Asked_Questions#What_is_the_religious_persuasion_of_the_contributors_to_WikiIslam.3F Link]). --[[User:Sahabah|Sahabah]] 04:59, 13 March 2012 (PDT)

::User60.242.71.160, apparently you have inspired one of your co-religionists to post a Yahoo!Answers [http://archive.is/http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20121209052050AAXMKca question] titled, "Why is WikiIslam run by the same guy who runs WikiChristian?"

::This is a great display of how morally bankrupt pious Muslims can become. Deciding to fabricate a lie in an attempt to discredit the site (in a similar vein to how they tend to scream "[[Glossary_of_Islamic_Terms#C|Christian Missionary]]" at everyone, regardless of the critic's beliefs or occupation).

::He claims, "Just a whois lookup gave it away". But, as the Yahoo!Answers user named Anjali helpfully pointed out in reply to this Muslim, the whois lookup shows nothing of the sort. WikiChristian.org/com etc., is run by [http://archive.is/http://www.whoisxy.com/t3resultpage.aspx?type=domain&q=wikichristian.com&rid=239521 an individual from India], WikiIslam's [http://archive.is/http://www.whoisxy.com/t3resultpage.aspx?type=domain&q=wikiislam.com&rid=239522 registration is private] (clearly this apologist is one of the [[Muslim Statistics (Education and Employment)|many illiterate people]] who follow Islam). --[[User:Sahabah|Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 21:55, 9 December 2012 (PST)
:::Just for the record, in his continuing campaign to spread lies about WikiIslam, the same Muslim has opened [http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20121213004152AApgYUt another question] on Yahoo!Answers. This time he's claiming we are an Islamic site, but we called him a "moron" for his imaginary edits on an article related to science and banned him. Any user/reader here can check our related talk pages, edit summaries and block logs. Doing so would reveal that this claim is false. We expect editors to be civil to one another on this site. Calling another editor (Muslim or non-Muslim) a "moron" would in itself earn you a ban here. Oh, and we know this Y!A member reads our forum messages, so just for his benefit, science does not say [[Creation_of_Humans_from_Clay#The_Scientific_Hypothesis|man was created ''from'' clay]]. --[[User:Sahabah|Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 14:42, 20 December 2012 (PST)

== History of Jihad ==

WHY was the HISTORY OF JIHAD section removed? (anon IP)
:The HOJ series of articles was removed due to multiple reasons, one of them being use of inappropriate language and text that was not suitable for this site (specific quotes can be provided if needed). There were also no inline citations that would confirm the validity of what was being said (this is a core policy for our articles). There is also no known authorship. In other words, we don't know who wrote it. HOJ was imported to this site a long time ago and that time we had little content and no policies. HOJ used to exist on its own site [http://www.historyofjihad.org] but it looks like its offline right now. Here's one copy ---> http://islam-watch.org/HistoryOfJihad/index.html --[[User:Axius|Axius]] 13:19, 24 March 2012 (PDT)
::Anon will probably never see this message, but the History of Jihad site is back up. --[[User:Admin3|Admin3]] ([[User talk:Admin3|talk]]) 03:05, 2 August 2012 (PDT)

== Arabic word nikah ==

IS there a page regarding the details of arabic word nikah , which means "sexual intercourse" ? and why quran uses that word for marriage in several passages ?

:Hi anon. No, we haven't at the moment, but it's on our very log to-do list. You may be interested in [http://www.translatingjihad.com/2011/03/update-fatwa-it-is-permissible-to-have.html?showComment=1299979475816#c4843074915730208352 these comments/posts] by Greenforest that covers the meaning of nikah. --[[User:Admin3|Admin3]] ([[User talk:Admin3|talk]]) 23:27, 14 June 2012 (PDT)

== Mirror? ==

This site is blocked in some countries; any chance of creating a mirror that might allow direct access without having to use a proxy service?
:The mirror would probably also be blocked eventually. They'll have to use proxy or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_%28anonymity_network%29 TOR]. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 04:57, 20 June 2012 (PDT)

== First article page created. Now I have questions ==

I've created my first article here (http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Quranic_Error:_Mary,_the_mother_of_Jesus_or_the_sister_of_Moses%3F)

Since I'm new to wiki editing, I was wondering if someone could see if i've used the guidelines and standardization in the correct way so far. Just a little test to see if I'm on the right track. I definately do not want to pollute this website.

Also I have this question: What do I do when an article is not finished? For now I have the words "Under Construction" at the top of the article. But this is sort of a work around. I haven't found a way to work on the article offline so that it can be published only when its finished. So I was forced to save the page and make it clear that it's still under construction. But perhaps there is a more conventional way to deal with these situations?

Also, feel free to, if you're a native English speaker, fine tune my English here and there. Since English is not my first language, I doubt at times whether my style is recognizable and not too 'Dutch', if that makes sense. [[User:Truthseeker|Truthseeker]] ([[User talk:Truthseeker|talk]]) 12:38, 30 July 2012 (PDT)

: I've added the "under construction" template to the page (to do this, just add ''<tt><nowiki>{{Underconstruction}}</nowiki></tt>'' to the top of any page). As long as that is placed on the page, it is fine. So don't feel that you have to rush yourself.

: I'm wondering, how many articles do you have to import? I think it's best if we wait for you to finish importing them all and then add them to the new articles list as a complete series (we can give them their own "front page" [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Parallelism_Between_the_Qur'an_and_Judeo-Christian_Scriptures like here], and of course you can continue adding new pages to it).

: You will also notice that I've moved the page to a title without any special characters (taking out these ''': , ?'''). This is because those characters tend to break incoming links. We get around it by adding this template at the bottom: ''<tt><nowiki>{{DISPLAYTITLE:Qur'anic Errors: Mary, the Mother of Jesus or the Sister of Moses?}}</nowiki></tt>'' --[[User:Admin3|Admin3]] ([[User talk:Admin3|talk]]) 04:43, 31 July 2012 (PDT)

:: I have only a few. I was hoping others could pick up the series. But I now think it's best to not use numbers for episodes. But like you said, after we have a few the articles they can be added to lists. I'm not as fast as I would be in Dutch, so it may take some time to finish the articles.[[User:Truthseeker|Truthseeker]] ([[User talk:Truthseeker|talk]]) 12:16, 31 July 2012 (PDT)

== Whoops! All Quran quotes fail ?? ==

It seems that the cmje.org website you refer to for Quran quotes is offline. Is this temporarily or should we start looking for a different Quran-quote template?
:Yea you're right its offline. I've written to the website owners and asked if its going to be back up. Otherwise there were some duplicate copies of that website on other places the last time I checked and we can switch. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 21:12, 30 July 2012 (PDT)
::Looks like they got the site back up: http://cmje.org/ . --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 10:15, 1 August 2012 (PDT)
:: It looks like it's down. --[[User:Paul99|Paul99]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 5:18, 27 August 2014 (CMT)
:::They have been using another url: http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/ They went from usc.edu to Cmje.org and then back to usc.edu. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 01:37, 28 August 2014 (PDT)

== Assisting more experienced article writers ==

I have a question.

I'm sure there are men and women here with alot of academic experience who have started to write on extensive complex articles.

Would it be an idea that perhaps less experienced editors could assist in doing some of the research work or doing some standardization work for them? This could save the experienced ones alot of time.

I myself would like to volunteer to be one of those assistance if anyone feels they require help with their article.

Just throwing it out there.
[[User:Truthseeker|Truthseeker]] ([[User talk:Truthseeker|talk]]) 12:19, 31 July 2012 (PDT)

:Thanks for the offer! Much appreciated. I'm not aware of anything at the moment, but will let you know. There's always something on the [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Tasks tasks page] if you find yourself at a loss for something to do (but note that some of the tasks may be out of date, so it would be best to check with us first). --[[User:Admin3|Admin3]] ([[User talk:Admin3|talk]]) 05:27, 1 August 2012 (PDT)

== It is possible to have sex with a death woman in Islam. ==

I just red on line what Saturday, 28 April 2012 the Al Arabia News wrote ( a newspaper owned by the Saudi king).
Egypt's women urge MPs not to pass early marriage, and sex-after-death laws. If they pass the law, it will allow men to have sex with their own wife up to 6 hours after her death. The women are anyway just object there, that law would show even more how disturbed their mind is. Please people give some good idea where can I make people aware about this disgusting thing in the media. I don't see any problem if this will bring more tension between Muslims and non Muslims if that is a fact.—The preceding [[WikiIslam:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Szultan44|Szultan44]] ([[User talk:Szultan44|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Szultan44|contribs]]) {{#if:10:54, 11 August 2012| on 10:54, 11 August 2012|}} 

:Hi Szultan44. Such questions are better suited to the [http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/ FFI forum]. Open a thread under the [http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewforum.php?f=22&sid=d49039027d61629d68981293d3281497 Islam: Questioned, Defended, & Explained] or [http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewforum.php?f=21&sid=d49039027d61629d68981293d3281497 The Quran and Hadith] sub forums, and you should receive an answer. --[[User:Admin3|Admin3]] ([[User talk:Admin3|talk]]) 13:35, 11 August 2012 (PDT)

== My article still under construction ==

My article http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Refuting_Apologists_Jews_Christians_and_Sabiens_can_go_to_heaven still have under construction template. Why ? —The preceding [[WikiIslam:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Azdahaexm|Azdahaexm]] ([[User talk:Azdahaexm|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Azdahaexm|contribs]]) {{#if:05:00, 3 September 2012| on 05:00, 3 September 2012|}} 

:Hi Azdahaexm. It's not ready. I haven't got around to fixing the formatting etc., yet. I'm snowed-under trying to keep the other pages up-to-date. There are also a few points I would like to add to the article. I'm sorry that it's not on our new articles list yet, but the important thing is that it's here and should eventually be added. I hope you don't mind the delay too much. --[[User:Admin3|Admin3]] ([[User talk:Admin3|talk]]) 07:09, 3 September 2012 (PDT)

::Thanks friend. No I didn't mind at all. Infact I have done some more changes. thanks --[[User:Azdahaexm|Azdahaexm]] ([[User talk:Azdahaexm|talk]]) 11:05, 4 September 2012 (PDT)
:::Hi Azdahaexm. The article has now been added. --[[User:Admin3|Admin3]] ([[User talk:Admin3|talk]]) 04:46, 11 September 2012 (PDT)
::::Thank you so much

== Underline in editor ==

I couldn't find "underline" option in Editor. Is is possible to add that ? --[[User:Azdahaexm|Azdahaexm]] ([[User talk:Azdahaexm|talk]]) 11:46, 4 September 2012 (PDT)

:I'm sure Axius could add that if need be, but (with the exception of our very own Prophet [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Farsideology Farside]) we don't really use underline in articles. We usually stick with using bold within quotes or otherwise italics for emphasis. --[[User:Admin3|Admin3]] ([[User talk:Admin3|talk]]) 12:57, 4 September 2012 (PDT)

:: LOL@Prophet Farside... I also sometimes need underline . Sometimes I have to bold the complete statement but to give more emphasize on certain words in the whole statement so I use underline for that. --[[User:Azdahaexm|Azdahaexm]] ([[User talk:Azdahaexm|talk]]) 13:30, 4 September 2012 (PDT)

:::Oh, cool. You could try adding italics to the bolded text like this:

:::{{Quote|{{Bukhari|9|92|399}}| Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle said, "People will not stop asking questions till they say, 'This is Allah, the Creator of everything, '''then ''who'' created Allah?''' "}}

:::How's that? --[[User:Admin3|Admin3]] ([[User talk:Admin3|talk]]) 13:41, 4 September 2012 (PDT)

:::: Thanks, yes i already did that , if you read my article, in commentary of "Biyanul Quran" I have italicized some words in the beginning. But I think underline will be better. :)

:::::Sorry. I hate saying no but I'll have to here. :( It's to keep our pages consistent in style and content (I think the underlining of text was seen as being messy and hard on the eyes). WikiIslam hasn't used underline in it's pages since 2006 (long before I ever made my first edit or even heard of the site). --[[User:Admin3|Admin3]] ([[User talk:Admin3|talk]]) 02:13, 5 September 2012 (PDT)

:::::: I was about to say the same that if it goes against the standard or looks messy then there is no need to add it. - {{unsigned|Azdahaexm}}
:::::::Wikipedia has an Underline template [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Underline], which interestingly is not used much [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatLinksHere&limit=500&target=Template%3AUnderline&namespace=0]. On their manual of style it [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Text_formatting#How_not_to_apply_emphasis says] ''"Underlining is used in typewriting and handwriting to represent italic type. Generally, do not underline text or it may be confused with links on a web page."'' (the links issue is also what I agree with too), so yes we're OK as we are without it. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 17:12, 5 September 2012 (PDT)

== Appropriate to refute Quranists ? ==

As we all know there is an emerging sect that claim to follow ONLY QURAN [Quranists]. Although there are many many refutations to Quranists for their claim that hadiths are not part of Islam or Quran was the only revelation but one of the most well documented and precise is at www.call-to-monotheism.com [islamic apologetic website]. Is it appropriate to create pages using this work to refute claims of Quranists ? I mean such kind of articles are appropriate for wikiislam ? --[[User:Azdahaexm|Azdahaexm]] ([[User talk:Azdahaexm|talk]]) 00:56, 8 September 2012 (PDT)

:We focus on mainstream Islamic beliefs but we do have one page dealing with Qur'anists [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur'an_Only_Islam_-_Why_it_is_Not_Possible here]. I guess you could expand the information on that page, but I don't see the need for more pages on the same thing. We also have to be careful that we do not plagiarize other's work. Taking ideas from them is fine but it cant be the same. Funny thing about Qur'anists is that I was a Muslim most of my life and have never met one. You cant escape their babble on the internet but they hardly seem to exist in the real world. One of life's great mysteries.:)

:On another note, I wanted to ask you is there a reason you use the Sahih International translation? We like to use either Yusuf Ali's, Marmaduke Pickthal's or M. H. Shakir's translations from the [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Compendium_of_Muslim_Texts Compendium of Muslim Texts]. Would it be okay for me to change the Qur'an translations on the article to one of these? --[[User:Admin3|Admin3]] ([[User talk:Admin3|talk]]) 03:49, 8 September 2012 (PDT)

:: Hahaha, you are right, but i have two of my cousins who are quranists, anyways , i will see what i can add to the page you have posted. About translation , there is no special reason to use Sahih International's quran except it is easily accessible via links like http://quran.com/1/1 and it is very close to the word to word provided by [http://corpus.quran.com Corpus Quran]. Feel free to change translations, I will keep this in mind and will use the above mentioned translations in future and I will change translations for my current article. Thanks --[[User:Azdahaexm|Azdahaexm]] ([[User talk:Azdahaexm|talk]]) 10:40, 8 September 2012 (PDT)

== Muhammad and his Wives ==

I think this article is probably ready to go live.

There are still a couple of references missing, but I think we have reached the stage where it is not worth delaying publication over them. I will add those references as I locate them.

I may also want to add a couple of small details in the future, but they will not change any major argument or even the flow of a paragraph. They are just details that add life to the character portrayals, but so far I have only read them in secondary (or tertiary or quaternary...) sources.

I suspect my page on Khadija can now replace the existing page on Khadija, and my introductory page, which includes a link to a list of Muhammad's unconsummated marriages, can replace the existing "List of Muhammad's Wives and Concubines".

My pages on Safiya and Mariya should not replace the existing pages, as the latter are analytical articles, whereas my pages are biographies. However, I have added links for further reading.[[User:1234567|1234567]] ([[User talk:1234567|talk]]) 21:23, 20 October 2012 (PDT)
:Great. As I mentioned previously, Axius will have to read through it before adding it. He's going to be busy for the next week or so and won't be logging in very often, so it will probably be after that. If it was a normal article, I could have done it but this is a massive addition. --[[User:Admin3|Admin3]] ([[User talk:Admin3|talk]]) 02:55, 21 October 2012 (PDT)

== New Editor ==

Hi,

I'm a new editor, I wish to contribute my articles on Islamic miracle claims to this site. How do I get about doing this?

[[User:Nahar Varma|Nahar Varma]] ([[User talk:Nahar Varma|talk]]) 04:15, 10 December 2012 (PST)

:Welcome to WikiIslam! Nice to have you here. If you want to work on an article from scratch, you can click this link: [[User:Nahar Varma/Sandbox]]. If you have an article already written, you can go to [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Help:Contents#How_to_Create_a_New_Page this page] and enter the desired page title into the box, then press the "Create page" button. Be sure to add this template to the top of the page while it is formatted etc: <nowiki>{{Underconstruction}}</nowiki>. I will leave our welcome template on your user-talk page because it contains a lot of useful links to help you get the hang of wiki editing, but feel free to ask for additional assistance when needed.--[[User:Sahabah|Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 04:29, 10 December 2012 (PST)
::hi Nahar, good to see you here. I'm the person who responded to your email. Nahar had sent the following email ([http://www.debunkingbucailleism.blogspot.com blog]):

{{Quote||Hello,

I am interested in studying different religions, although personally I'm not religious; I am a Deist.
I came across scientific miracle claims in the Qur'an in early 2011. I soon came across your website,
and inspired by it, I have started my own blog refuting the claims of Islamic Bucailleists: www.debunkingbucailleism.blogspot.com

The articles refuting miracle claims are very good, but there are too few of them, hence I'd like to contribute.

Sincerely,
Nahar Varma}}

::Nahar, today I'll go over your site and then comment here.--[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 05:25, 10 December 2012 (PST)
:::Ok, Nahar, I guess you will have to go over [[Islam and Science]] yourself and see if your arguments are already present there or in one of the sub-articles. You would start from your first article (written in September, when you started the blog). I liked what you had in this post [http://www.debunkingbucailleism.blogspot.com/2012/09/three-criteria-for-scientific.html Three Criteria for Scientific Foreknowledge]. I see some of that has been covered in our Islam and Science introduction (we have 4 points and you have 3).
:::My suggestion: The steps for you would be to go over what we have on our site and get an idea of the types of pages we have and then go to your blog one by one and see where you can add your content. We may not have some topics that you have. Then for example after checking the articles for September, you see that some stuff should be added on our site, let us know what you think you should do. The language should of course be changed to 3rd person. Sorry I could not give a detailed/helpful analysis of what should be done but I'm pressed for time. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 21:04, 11 December 2012 (PST)

== Criticisms of other religions Wiki ==

Does your group or any group that you know of plan or have a Wiki devoted to criticisms of each major religion in the world?

[[Special:Contributions/97.85.168.22|97.85.168.22]] 17:49, 25 April 2013 (PDT)
:No we don't. The closest I can think of is [http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page rational wiki] (See [http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Category:Religion Category:Religion]) but their focus is wide and not specifically on religion. I dont know of any other wikis that criticize other religions. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 17:55, 25 April 2013 (PDT)

While "WikiIslam is a community edited website which focuses on the critique of Islam" and while this site claims that most editors are truly atheists and agnosts and policies and content of this site reflect that "editors are advised that no region should be given priority over another", I suggest too: Would be a huge evidence of that to have critique of Islam by its similarities to Judaism and Christianity. Otherwise critique to Islam may fail, to collapse only into contradictory and hypocrisy. I suggest that this site includes on main page a region of that area and there articles of similarities of one god, attitude to women, attitude to gays, jesus as prophet of both, attitudes towards other religions and religious free people. There is in bible too marriage of Abraham with his half-sister or niece Sarah, father having sex ang gettin children with his daughters (Lot with his daughters in Genesis 19:33) and it is not condemned in bible - moreover there are over 10 stories of incestuous relationships in the bible. A critique that Islam is just one version of Abrahamic religions and very similar, would be very informative addition to this site. This site should make more clear statement on the main page, whether this site is objectively or subjectively critiq to islam. Is this site critiqs from other religion beliefs or from free of religions people to islam? Personally I think that religious people that criticize other religions of same things that their own religion does, are deep in un-credibility. --[[User:Oneofusall|Oneofusall]] ([[User talk:Oneofusall|talk]]) 05:39, 6 July 2015 (PDT)
:We stay away from criticizing (or praising in any way) other religions because we would not want to alienate various segments of the site visitors. Islam has a lot of issues on its own and people are free to investigate other religions from other sources. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 19:10, 8 July 2015 (PDT)

== help needed to build new article==

hi. who is admin of this site? if i want to build new article, can you help me ? [[User:Yahoo|Yahoo]] ([[User talk:Yahoo|talk]]) 08:04, 21 May 2013 (PDT)
:Hi Yahoo. Welcome to WikiIslam! There are many administrators/editors. I am one of them and will help in any way I can. Have a read through the [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Policies_and_Guidelines policies]. When you're ready you can [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Help:Contents#How_to_Create_a_New_Page create a page here] or use a sandbox ([[User:Yahoo/Sandbox]]).[[User:Sahabah|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 10:05, 21 May 2013 (PDT)
::thanks. can anyone make cite web and book like wikipedia ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cite_web & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cite_book

and can someone give me classical islamic history book(ibn sa`d, tabari, waqedi, etc) and tafsir(tabari, etc) in english text ? i don't have them. [[User:Yahoo|Yahoo]] ([[User talk:Yahoo|talk]]) 11:33, 21 May 2013 (PDT)

how i can link to external web sites ? [[User:Yahoo|Yahoo]] ([[User talk:Yahoo|talk]]) 11:49, 21 May 2013 (PDT)
:hi Yahoo, we do have a [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Cite_web Cite web] and its used in a few articles but I still need to change its output format (its input format will still be identical to Wikipedia). We have a [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Template:Reference_archive reference archive] template but it only works with [http://www.webcitation.org/ WebCite]. I would say, use WebCite and use the reference archive template for now. Examples of use can be seen on the template page or in any of the [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Reference_archive usage] links.

:We can provide some sources later on. What kind of articles do you plan on making?

:You can get online Tafsirs from sites like http://www.altafsir.com/ and quote them using the [[Template:Quote|quote]] template.
:The article you made will need to have its headings capitalized. I think its a good idea. It will take time to look for all the links because there are so many and new ones are coming up all the time. I think if a fair number of links can be collected, the article can be presentable. Good luck with its completion. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 16:56, 21 May 2013 (PDT)
:#Qur'an in English: [http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/ this] site provides 34 compared English translations, and [http://iknowledge.islamicnature.com/quran/surah/1/lang/englishliteral/ this] site provides the English literal translation
:#Hadiths in English: [http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/ Compendium of Muslim Texts], and [http://www.searchtruth.com/hadith_books.php this] site includes a few narrations that have been removed from the Compendium.
:#Tafsirs in English: [http://www.theholybook.org/content/section/1/2/ ], [http://www.altafsir.com/Ibn-Abbas.asp ], [http://www.altafsir.com/Al-Jalalayn.asp ] and [http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=1 ].
:#Sira literature: [http://www.justislam.co.uk/images/Ibn%20Ishaq%20-%20Sirat%20Rasul%20Allah.pdf ] and [http://www.soebratie.nl/religie/hadith/IbnSad.html].
:#Fiqh: [http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http://www.islamicbulletin.com/free_downloads/resources/reliance_complete.pdf&date=2011-03-16 ] and [http://bewley.virtualave.net/Risalatitl.html ].
:#Fatwa websites in English: [http://islamqa.info/en ] and [http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/ ]. [[User:Sahabah|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 19:35, 21 May 2013 (PDT)

==Scientific Method==

A publicly editable web page purports that Alhazen was the father of modern scientific method. Though he may have made some advances in optics, I do not believe this is true. I am interested in improving the page. Who might be a more accurate figure of the same or earlier era, who contributed significantly to the development of scientific method? [[User:Devraj|Devraj]] ([[User talk:Devraj|talk]]) 20:28, 4 July 2013 (PDT)
:Hi Devraj. I did a quick Google search and could not find such a page. Anyhow, you can work on an article here: [[User:Devraj/Sandbox]]. This particular page is a response to a specific publication, so any article on Alhazen will have to be separate from it. [[User:Sahabah|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 20:46, 4 July 2013 (PDT)
Hi Sahabah,
The page I'm referring to is Wikipedia's "Scientific Method" page. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method].I would appreciate any link to a source that shows that scientific experimentation was undertaken by those other than muslims who lived in the similar era as Alhazen. Other sources I read say the Christian world came up with true scientific method, but I cannot find the specific example(s) of those persons who supposedly did these experiments prior to Alhazen.
:If you look at the talk page for Wikipedia's Alhazen article[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Alhazen#Misuse_of_sources], you'll see a lot of the claims are disputed because [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam,_Science_and_the_Problems_at_Wikipedia Jagged 85] was a big contributor of the information there. We have our hub page concerning the "[http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Golden_Age Golden Age]", but other than that, we would suggest going to the [http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/ FFI forum] if you have any questions. [[User:Sahabah|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 11:04, 5 July 2013 (PDT)

== Concerned about Security, IP Address Tracing etc. ==

I'm becoming increasingly active in restoring the historical truth to various Wikipedia pages which were hijacked by Islamists. I am concerned as to whether it would be possible for someone to trace my IP address or my computer, and harm me. Are either of these a valid concern? If so I suppose I can be entirely safe by making my Wikipedia edits from a library or other public computer and public internet connection? {{unsigned|‎Devraj}}
:Its safe to get a username and edit from the username (just make sure you're logged in all the time) from any computer (home or elsewhere). Good luck. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 15:06, 19 July 2013 (PDT)
Please check out this article[http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/andrewkantor/2004-06-17-kantor_x.htm ] - one among many - that indicates that it is quite possible for someone with ill intent to track the source of online activity. Why should I not be concerned about this?
:That is basically an alarmist article. There's about 30-50K active editors on Wikipedia (more than 5 edits in the last 30 days) at any given time. Unless there's illegal activity (real threats of violence for example) there's no tracking and even then only authorities can access that tracking information. Wikipedia admins do have access (I think) if they have the checkuser right but its a small number of admins who do and they dont misuse that data. If you still have questions you can ask on Wikipedia or another internet forum. There are many editors editing Wikipedia with the alternate point of view about Islam, Unless an editor does something really illegal (terrorist threat or something) their identity is not and cannot be known. Again make sure you're logged on (important, otherwise your IP address will be recorded in that page's history). IP addresses can be known to admins but to trace that address to a real person requires a police permit and so on, which is only given if its an extreme case (e.g. violence, as I mentioned). To be safe, always do a "preview" on an edit before you submit it, to make sure your login is still active (sometimes the login goes inactive if the edit window was open for a long time). If you stay logged in, dont do anything illegal you'll be safe. Maybe [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&limit=500&hideliu=1 this] link might help - lots of people editing with IPs without any care, however again if you are concerned, you can make sure you are logged in and it will not be public. Once again, you should visit internet IT forums or ask Wikipedia for assistance for further clarifying these things. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 17:05, 19 July 2013 (PDT)
Thank you! That helps.

== Indian female convert to Islam killed by Taliban (Islam in the news) ==

Hi. I wanted to share the news of the recent killing of an Indian social worker Sushmita Banerjee (later Syeda Kamal) by the Taliban. She had married an Afghan in the 80's. When she went to Afghanistan, she found out that he was already married. Then after facing oppression under the Taliban there, she fled but her in-laws recaptured her. She decided to do social work in Afghanistan but was recently executed by the Taliban who said "why did you write nasty things about us?"
Is there a way I contribue to the "Islam in the news" section?--[[User:Mahomet|Mahomet]] ([[User talk:Mahomet|talk]]) 22:45, 8 September 2013 (PDT)

<ref>{{cite news |url=http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-09-06/india/41832545_1_suspected-taliban-militants-afghan-police-afghanistan |title=Indian author Sushmita Banerjee killed in Afghanistan by Taliban |date=September 6, 2013 |newspaper=Times of India}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/05/sushmita-banerjee-killed-taliban_n_3874734.html |title= Sushmita Banerjee, Female Indian Author, Killed By Taliban |newspaper=Huffington Post}}</ref>
<ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/why-did-you-write-nasty-things-taliban-militants-reportedly-asked-sushmita-banerjee-before-killing-h-415758 |title=Why did you write nasty things, Taliban militants reportedly asked Sushmita Banerjee before killing her |date=September 07, 2013}}</ref>

{{reflist}}
:If you look at the contribs for [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Al-Qaum Al-Qaum], you can see stuff is added first to the [[Islam in the News]] page and then to the [[WikiIslam:Latest News]]. Please follow the formats (small amount of text from the news site, link formats, heading should reflect the news source etc). --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 10:10, 9 September 2013 (PDT)
::It's already been added to ''Islam in the News'' by Al-Qaum. See [[Islam in the News#Afghanistan: Militants shoot dead the Indian author of a popular book about her escape from the Taliban|here]]. [[User:Sahabah|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 12:27, 9 September 2013 (PDT)
:::Ohh, great! You guys are really international and stay on top of things. :) --[[User:Mahomet|Mahomet]] ([[User talk:Mahomet|talk]]) 20:32, 12 September 2013 (PDT)
::::Thanks Mahomet! [[User:Sahabah|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 23:16, 12 September 2013 (PDT)

== Add option to "submit your testimony"? ==

I would like to submit my testimony to this page http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Special:Form/newapostate

Under "current worldview", can you add the option of Bahá’í?—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Golconda|Golconda]] ([[User talk:Golconda|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Golconda|contribs]]) {{#if:19:57, 16 March 2014 | 19:57, 16 March 2014 |}} ([[WikiIslam:Signatures#Signing_Posts|Remember to sign your comments]]) 
:Hi Golconda. Just submit your testimony and we'll add that for you. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 20:07, 16 March 2014 (PDT)

== The Islamic Golden Age referenced on the Wikipedia article on "humans" ==

Without any citations, the "Islamic Golden Age" myth was added to other contributions during the Middle Ages.

"The late Middle Ages saw the rise of revolutionary ideas and technologies. In China, an advanced and urbanized society promoted innovations and sciences, such as printing and seed drilling. In India, major advancements were made in mathematics, philosophy, religion and metallurgy. The Islamic Golden Age saw major advancements in mathematics, astronomy, optics, biology, medicine, art and architecture in Muslim empires."

Whatever "Muslim advances" (should say Persian advances!) there were was from conquering places. This appears to represent something debunked in the 1001 inventions page. Basically, they list more advances for Muslims than for China... what a joke.

Maybe add a "citation needed" and delete most of the tags.
Muslims contributed to basically nothing except some math and astronomy.

What disgusts me is that it calls those inventions "Muslim" but later talks about globalization and the information age as if it weren't "Western".

Care to fix this with me? [[Special:Contributions/50.187.216.93|50.187.216.93]] 23:05, 16 June 2014 (PDT)
:I personally don't have enough time to do anything on Wikipedia (too much to do and its hard to maintain it with them contantly fighting to keep away anything truthful about Islam) but someone else might. This certain article [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age] doesnt look too long so it shouldnt be too hard to fix. I would suggest add the citation needed tag where you want to and wait a week before you remove those statements with a comment "removing unsourced statements. Had previously left in the Citation needed tag. Use talk page before restoring any statements". Relevant to this might be this article on our site [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_Science_and_the_Problems_at_Wikipedia]. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 01:20, 17 June 2014 (PDT)
:: Great Idea. I'll go for it. [[Special:Contributions/50.187.216.93|50.187.216.93]] 12:37, 19 June 2014 (PDT)
:::I didnt look at it in detail but I think in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Islamic_Golden_Age&diff=prev&oldid=613602760 this] edit over there, you will most likely have to defend removal of references / referenced information.
:::Its very difficult to clean up the mess created by the Muslim editor Jagged85 (he had 60K or 80K edits, most of which were intentionally misleading as their [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_Science_and_the_Problems_at_Wikipedia investigation] showed). What you may be seeing or dealing with may be some of his work. The references will have to be checked. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 19:14, 19 June 2014 (PDT)

== Purpose of this website==

I am personally a Christian, but I have some sympathy for Islam, as I have many Muslim friends who have been quite helpful to me over the years. I have shown them respect, and they have reciprocated. I do not pretend to know what is best for others, any more than I enjoy others pretending to know what is best for myself. I was wondering, is this site meant to ultimately be purely scientific, letting the facts fall where they may, or is it meant to be biased against Islam, preferring to portray views that denigrate Islam whenever possible or convenient? Thanks, [[User:Scottperry|Scottperry]] ([[User talk:Scottperry|talk]]) 12:55, 23 June 2014 (PDT)
:There's a verse in the Quran, 5:38 that says a thief's hands should be cut off. Islam cannot be reformed. If one verse is to be rejected then the whole Quran can be rejected.
:This site focuses on criticism of Islam. You can have a good look around first. Start from the [[site map]].
:Being biased against Islam is not a bad thing or something to be ashamed of because Islam itself is biased against non-Muslims like me and you since it says we will all burn in Hell for not accepting it (Quran 48:13). Your Muslim friends may be nice people but if they think a thief's hands should not be cut off (Quran 5:38), if they think a wife should not be beaten for disobedience (Quran 4:34), if they dont believe that virgins in Heaven are large breasted (Quran 78:33) then they are not really Muslims and are not believing in actual Quranic verses. They are choosing to reject those verses or defend them in some way.
:But do tell us what can be done differently or if you have any suggestions. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 15:20, 23 June 2014 (PDT)
::Thanks for your frankness. I think I'll try to insert the full edit, along with cites, that I first started to work on, and see what happens. Regarding hand-chopping, there are verses in the Bible that say homosexuals, disobedient sons, and adulterers should all be killed, and Jesus supposedly said that not a "jot" of the Bible should be disregarded, but just the same, modern-day Christianity ''has'' opted to reject those verses, yet to keep others, and still continues to be a major influence in the world. Christianity has adapted significantly over the centuries, and much of it for the better. It's had a 700 year head-start over Islam. There are also verses in the Quran that say that there is hope for non-Muslims to enter heaven. As with the Bible, both books are filled with contradictions. Personally, as a Christian, I pick and choose which parts resonate with me, and which don't. I think that whether or not most other Christians would admit it, they all do that too. How many Christians do you know these days that stone all of those "evil-doers" as mentioned above?
::At any rate, I don't know if I'll be a very good "fit" here, but I'll try a few edits and see what happens. My "debt" to Islam, as a Christian, is that no less than twice, my life was literally saved by Muslims! Don't ask me why, I couldn't say. So long as you guys are fundamentally honest about your criticisms against Islam here, which we shall see, I shall be happy to contribute here. Thanks, [[User:Scottperry|Scottperry]] ([[User talk:Scottperry|talk]]) 19:32, 23 June 2014 (PDT)
:::Ok. Well that is all good stuff for debate.
:::So for your edit [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=Muslim_Statistics&diff=107924&oldid=101364] you would first add it on the Education page (possibly Worldwide section here [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Education_and_Employment#Worldwide]) and after that the main Statistics edit that you made can be restored. Stuff on that page is mentioned and sourced in the sub-pages. You'll notice though that all the stuff in these Stats pages is quotes -- and I think thats a problem (for this reason I think the addition will be a challenge). But as long as what you put in cannot be disputed or challenged it could be fine so the more sources you can add the better. Yea try it and we'll see how it looks. In this case case you would need to provide proof that these named countries were really under the influence of soviet communism as Muslims would challenge that and say "those countries did it on their own". This is the kind of sourcing we use and its important as you can see. Another to thing to check is how "far" other Muslim countries are from the high literacy rates (the ones that were not influenced by soviet communism). --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 20:04, 23 June 2014 (PDT)
::::Another opinion, of course there are good Muslims but in how is it because of Islam and how does that help Islam? They are just good as humans. All Muslims need not be hateful or believing in each and every verse of the Quran but their uproach is still cultist. They will keep considering Islam as superior and us as trasshy. Ask your Muslim friends to prove our site (or other sites) wrong. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 07:04, 24 June 2014 (PDT)
:::::At Scottperry: Actually, the reason why Christians do not stone people is because Jesus stopped an adulteress from being stoned by saying "let he who has not sinned cast the first stone." And as for the "not a "jot" of the Bible should be disregarded", you ignore the bit straight after that sentence where he says "until everything is accomplished" (when he dies, he then says "It is finished"). For a "Christian" you sure do talk about/understand Christianity like a Muslim apologist would. These are exactly the same talking points they try to use as [[Tu Quoque]] arguments to shut down criticism. Unfortunately for them, and for you, a simple reading of the text shows your error. This is also where Christianity and Islam differ. Sure, Christian beliefs have changed with the times, but that did ''not'' take place by (as you suggest) Christians waking up one day and saying, "I don't like this part of the Bible, let's ignore it." It happened through the ability of reformers to successfully argue a theologically sound case for why Christians should stop certain things. Muslim reformers however do not have a leg to stand on. All the theologically sound arguments come from the terrorists. Let me quote this:
:::::"'''Chronological Shift in Violence'''

:::::''This is one of the most important factors to take into consideration. If you are going to criticize a holy book for what you believe it advocates to its followers, then you must read the text like a believer would. If a book contains a large amount of violence in it but finishes by telling its readers in the second half of the book to be pacifists and behave like cute little bunny rabbits, does it advocate violence or pacifism? Of course, the answer is that it advocates pacifism. Likewise if a book begins by describing pacifism but finishes by telling its readers to "slay the unbelievers wherever you find them", that book logically advocates violence.''

:::::''All of the "positive" violence committed in the Bible is found in the Old Testament. The New Testament contains absolutely no exhortations to violence. Quite the opposite, Jesus advocates extreme pacifism. Christians believe they are a part of the "New Covenant" described in the New Testament , not the Old Covenant described in the Old Testament.''

:::::''Muslims do not have an "old" or "new" covenant to filter their text through. However, what they do have is something very similar, it is the doctrine of Abrogation, where later Qur'anic verse naturally supersede earlier ones. This would be fine if like the Bible all the violence was confined to the beginning, but this is not the case. Don't take my word for it. Read the Qur'an in chronological order and the shift from pacifism to violence is unmissable. This results in rendering almost all of the peaceful verses abrogated and useless.''" [http://islamo-criticism.blogspot.com/2012/03/is-bible-more-bloodthirsty-than-quran.html (Link)]

::::: Concerning your "Christianity has had a 700 year head-start over Islam" logic, that is a ridiculous way of thinking. Sikhism is only about five hundred years old, so according to your logic, today they should be behaving like European Neanderthals from the early middle-ages. In addition to that, according to your logic, we should be apologizing for these hypothetical Neanderthals and making excuses for them. The evolution of religious believers does not happen like that. Religions generally conform in some degree to the more liberal morals of their times. The fact that the 700 years newer religion of Islam made a regression in morals when compared to Christianity should be all you need to know of its founder and the general spirit of its texts. Interestingly, the Baha'i Faith is a 19th century offshoot of Islam. Since Islam has had 1,000+ years head-start, shouldn't Baha'is be going around invading other countries in order to spread their newer religion, subjugating its people and destroying religious institutions belong to its previous occupants? That isn't happening, but guess what? There is a religion at this very moment cleansing the remaining religious minorities wherever it is dominant, and it ain't the Baha'is or Christians. And about those "verses in the Quran that say that there is hope for non-Muslims to enter heaven," that's total apologetic nonsense. Read this:

:::::"''There are many verses in the Qur'an that label Christians and Jews as disbelievers, and numerous more that explicitly condemn them and other disbelievers to Hell. There is scholarly consensus on the fact that Christians and Jews are viewed by Islam as kafirs, because of "the clear nature of the texts about this".''

:::::''If you read verse 2:62 in context, it is referring only to those Christians, Jews, and Sabiens who believed in the time of their own Prophet/Messenger.''

:::::''Each Revelation abrogated the previous. Thus, after the advent of Prophet Muhammad and Islam, no individual can make it into Paradise unless they accept Allah as God, Muhammad as his last Prophet and the Qur'an as Allah's final book of guidance.''

:::::''Therefore, the concept of Heavenly rewards in Islam are now exclusively offered to Muslims. Christians and Jews may believe in a single monotheistic god, but they do not believe in "His Messenger". Thus they are destined for the "burning fire".''

:::::''Additionally, the non-Muslims who do make it into Paradise will only be used as sex-slaves by believing men, Muslims who themselves will be spared hell-fire by Allah on the Day of Resurrection by making innocent Christians and Jews take their place and be thrown into Hell.''" [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Christians_Jews_and_Muslims_in_Heaven (Link)] [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 15:02, 8 August 2014 (PDT)

== Inspired by Muhammad: Dog Hadiths ==

Hello. I looked at the links to the Hadiths concerning killing dogs and restricting to killing black dogs from this page: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Inspired_by_Muhammad#Killing_Dogs

It seems that the links do not take you to the hadiths you are quoting. Maybe the site was updated or whoever created the page made a mistake. I thought you should know.

Specifically, it's the Sahih Muslim 16:2840 and Sahih Muslim 16:2839.

I think the hadiths are Abu-Dawud: http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/abudawud/016-sat.php [[User:Paul99|Paul99]] ([[User talk:Paul99|talk]]) 5:18, 27 August 2014 (GMT)
: Number 5248 in that [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Inspired_by_Muhammad#Killing_Dogs section] you mentioned has a valid link. What specific quotes have broken links? --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 03:53, 29 August 2014 (PDT)

It was the bottom two hadiths under "The Black Dog is a Devil". Sahih Muslim 16:2840 and Sahih Muslim 16:2839 do not lead to the hadiths quoted, but I found the hadiths in their entirety in Abu-Dawud. You can find them at the top of the page here: http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/abudawud/016-sat. I believe that the two Hadith collections were mixed up in the post.[[User:Paul99|Paul99]] ([[User talk:Paul99|talk]]) 20:11, 30 August 2014 (GMT)
:Oh ok, yea I see it now. I fixed those now [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Inspired_by_Muhammad#The_Black_Dog_is_a_Devil]. Thanks! --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 15:58, 30 August 2014 (PDT)

SerUm, I checked and it still says and goes to Sahih MMuslim. [User:Paul99|Paul99]] ([[User talk:Paul99|talk]]) 16:25, 31 August 2014 (GMT)
:Nope, it should be fixed. Check [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=Inspired_by_Muhammad&diff=109583&oldid=98757#The_Black_Dog_is_a_Devil this]. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 10:05, 31 August 2014 (PDT)

Sorry. My mistake. My computer wasn't working correctly or something. I see it now. :) [User:Paul99|Paul99]] ([[User talk:Paul99|talk]]) 1:51, 1 September 2014 (GMT)

== Website organization ==

Hi, i would like firstly to thank you for the great work. This site helped me a lot during my years of doubt about islam. And i ll give you some feedback from a reader's perspective :
* I think the site has a lot of good articles but it needs more organisation. Maybe making Portals shoud be added to the tasks. For example for islam and science, a Portal would be much more useful than the core article or the unergonomic site Map. In the islam and science portal for example we should find two sections: refutations of quran's miracles like big bang, embryology etc.. and for embryology for example there should be a "subsection" where all the articles should be listed History of embryology, embryology in jewish scriptures, in the quran , in the quran and the hadith... and another section for scientific errors in quran and hadith. Same goes fr other portals.
* About the sources of the quran and hadith, when i was muslim i had to recheck every islamic quote wrote here in its arabic version (my faith made me do it) and it would be better i guess if there was this possibility to see the arabic version just next to the reference.
* I'm gonna try to start translating some articles in French and maybe arabic if i have the time to do it.
Cheers --[[User:Einstein reason|ArabSagan]] ([[User talk:Einstein reason|talk]]) 08:49, 8 October 2014 (PDT)
*I prefer a template to portal for all the scientific errors and abrogations but who will bell the cat? New editors are not allowed to edit mainspace. Axius is too busy for long long time and nothing is getting reviewed. Your blank confession will also stay like that. Yes French translations are welcome. Our message must get to France and the whole of French West Africa. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 13:08, 8 October 2014 (PDT)

::Hi. I'm happy to hear you found this site useful. Concerning your queries:
::A)

:*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Islam This] is the Islam Portal on Wikipedia, and [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Science this] is the Islam and Science Core article on WikiIslam. Looking at them both (and leaving aside our Site Map for the moment), I do not see how a Wikipedia style portal would help people find articles quicker than our Core articles. The Wikipedia portals quite frankly are a mess. There appears little order to them or a clear method for new readers to easily find material they are after. Conversely, the TOC on Core articles make it very easy to find articles. And this site probably does not have enough articles per subject to justify a Wikipedia-style Portal which is engulfed in links all over the place (links which would probably require more energy for new readers to decipher, because they are embedded within walls of text).

:*Then there is the Site Map which you call "unergonomic". That surprises me a lot, since I cannot think of a more comfortable or easier way of navigating the entire site from a single page.

:*You suggest that we should create separate sections; one for Qur'an miracles etc., but we already have separate sections such as the ones you propose, e.g. one of them is indeed "Qur'an miracles".

:*There is no need to create a new embryology "subsection", because the embryology articles are already linked from a single heading (see [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Science#Embryology_in_Islamic_Scripture here]). We also do not have an "embryology in jewish scriptures" article. We have one that covers reproduction in general, and that is already linked very clearly beneath the "Embryology in Islamic Scripture" section.

::So that leaves a couple of things I'd like you to do:
::1. Please explain exactly how and why the enormous effort of replacing Core articles with Portals would be beneficial for us.
::2. Give us a better way that readers can explore the entire site from a single page.

::B) Concerning Arabic; most Muslims do not read, write or speak Arabic and this is a primarily English-language site that only uses trusted scholarly translations, so I don't see any urgency or major benefit from that. Would it be nice to have a link to Arabic versions of all sources? Probably, but it is not realistic. Where is an Arabic-speaking editor who is willing to find all of them and add them to 2,000+ articles (if each article has 50 refs, that makes at least 100,000 links)? Then where are the editors who will check each link for accuracy and maintain these same links from link rot? Like I said, it may be a nice idea, but it has little actual benefit and is not realistic. If an Arabic-speaker, does use the site, like yourself, it is probably best to let them find Arabic versions if they do not trust the English-language versions used by millions of English-speaking Muslims.

::I only see one certainty in trying to do this, and that is a negative one. By including links to Arabic versions in only a few articles, this would set up an arbitrary standard that should not exist i.e. someone can then read a perfectly referenced article and then claim, "But this one doesn't have links to Arabic like the other one did", and then discard all the referenced information they had just read.

::C) Translations are most welcome. I'm assuming you read those pages I provided you a while ago, but if you need further help, you can ask Axius or I (if I'm around) for help. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 13:46, 8 October 2014 (PDT)

==Arab inventions==

So.....arab inventions or innovations/improvements on already existing stuff doesn't matter? Sure some of the inventors could've been from other religions, but the fact remains they were all ARABS. I feel this article tries to discredit arab inventions no matter what faith they are. This is the same thing that happens in the US with black inventors, since they are a minority their inventions get attributed to whites no matter what.
:Are you talking about [[How Islamic Inventors Did Not Change The World]]? The article is about claims made for "Islamic inventors", not Arab or non-Arab. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 10:16, 27 November 2014 (PST)
::Assuming the anon is being genuine and not simply trying to disguise an incorrect statement within a question, I would also be very interested in knowing what article they are referring to. None of what is written by our editors try to deny Arab contributions to science. In fact we make a point of mentioning that Arabs, just like every other ethnic group on this planet, have provided the world with their fair share of scientific advances. And depending on the anon's level of ignorance (and whatever article they may be referring to), even the statement that "the fact remains they were all ARABS," may be incorrect. For example, many Egyptians, Lebanese, Iranians, Syrians, etc., may speak Arabic in some form or another, but they are not ethnically Arab, nor do they consider themselves as Arabs. In fact, many of them view being called an Arab a personal insult. That hasn't stopped Islamic propagandists from depicting them as such. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 19:21, 27 November 2014 (PST)

== Editing the description of the website. ==

I ve been using wiki-islam's links when debating online, specially the"quran, hadith and scholars" pages. And always the first response is: wikiislam is an anti-islam website so they are lying (aka using fake data) , until i tell them that they can check the authenticity of the quotes with clicking on the references. So if that was said in the description under the title of the articles, it will be a good thing for the credibility of th website.
Also i'm sure this have been already discussed but i think that you should avoid using usc's database since you know how muslims are untrustful of anything that is related to jews, but i don't know what are your options or if it is easy to fix.

:''"anything that is related to jews"'' - Sounds like an attempt for us to stop using a reliable source so the content can become less reliable. The reliability is explained on the wiki page [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Compendium_of_Muslim_Texts]. Assuming the inquiry is genuine:
:During the debate did you investigate how true this claim is? People will use any excuse they can. The 3 Quran translations are well known and the hadiths are from Bukhari, Muslim and others (6 hadith collections). Ask them if they know of any reliable Quran/hadith websites. The answer is usually "Just ignore all the websites. Consult with a real Islamic scholar" which we know is a cop-out.
:No data on our site is fake. You can search any hadith/verse and find the exact quotes on many other websites. The USC database was chosen because it was hosted on an educational institution's server and additional reasons are mentioned on that wiki page I linked. It used to be the website for the MSA at that university originally and currently its the Muslim-engagement center website. That doesnt effect its reliability in any way. People are free to crosscheck the hadiths and verses on other websites.
:''"until i tell them that they can check the authenticity of the quotes with clicking on the references"'' - they are visiting a website and a website is supposed to have links by default. People dont need to be told that they should click the links on a page. When someone claims a website has fake information you should challenge that statement because you know that in this case that is a false statement that has no basis. You will get better in debate with time. Additional information about the sources is in our [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Frequently_Asked_Questions#Sources_Used FAQ]. The FAQ page is linked on every page on the left. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 11:52, 2 December 2014 (PST)

== "Jihad is Perpetual" subtopic has bad link ==

I was looking at the "Jihad is Perpetual" subtopic of [[Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Fighting Non-Muslims]] and tried to navigate to the link to Sunan Abu Dawud Chapter 14, hadith 2526 specified there. However, it appears that USC has removed the Jihad chapter from Sunan Abu Dawud, and the link goes to Chapter 13 on fasting instead.

I did find a working link to this hadith at Sunnah.com though. It is here:
http://sunnah.com/abudawud/15/8

Oddly, that hadith number is 2484, so there seems to be inconsistent hadith numbering scheme between what's specified in the wikiislam link and the one at sunnah.com. The convention used at sunnah.com seems to match up with the translation I have by Nasiruddin al-Khattab.
:Indeed you are right, it is not there anymore. I have it in my local copy so yes it was removed from their website. Not sure what to do right now so I'm just going to add this to on our tasks page for now. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 14:04, 14 March 2015 (PDT)

==New article==
Help ! I would like to create a new article. I don't see it. It's always in the sandbox.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Sandbox/Unreliable_hadeeths
--[[User:Dare4|Dare4]] ([[User talk:Dare4|talk]]) 13:43, 14 March 2015 (PDT)
:Not sure what you are asking for. Can you clarify further? --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 13:57, 14 March 2015 (PDT)

::Hi Dare4. Have you actually looked at the state of the page you created? What would make you think it's okay to take it out of the sandbox and put it in our mainspace looking like that? I've deleted that page anyhow. We already have a page that covers all those and many more (see [[List of Fabricated Hadith|here]]). Use the Site map or search function to avoid such a situation in the future. Please also read and follow the directions on [[WikiIslam:Message to New Users]] before making any further contributions. Thanks. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 15:26, 14 March 2015 (PDT)

== Question about Islamic Texts ==

Has anybody ever combined the Qur'an, Hadith, and Ishaq/Tabari into a single, chronologically ordered document?