Land to water ratio miracle in the Qur'an - Revision history

Asmith at 00:37, 30 November 2025

2025-11-30T00:37:44Z

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	According to some [[du'aah]], the Qur'an describes the ratio of land to water on Earth. That is approximately 71% water and 29% land.<ref>http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html</ref> This ratio isn't stated anywhere in the Qur'an, but according to claimants, the ratio is hidden in a ratio of word counts.		According to some [[du'aah]], the Qur'an describes the ratio of land to water on Earth. That is approximately 71% water and 29% land.<ref>http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html</ref> This ratio isn't explicitly stated anywhere in the Qur'an, but according to the claimants, the ratio is hidden in a ratio of word counts.

	The counted words are ''al-barr'' (ٱلْبَرّ) for "land" and ''al-bahr'' (ٱلْبَحْرِ) for "water" (though the word ''al-bahr'' means "the sea", not "water")		The counted words are ''al-barr'' (ٱلْبَرّ) for "land" and ''al-bahr'' (ٱلْبَحْرِ) for "water" (though the word ''al-bahr'' means "the sea", not "water")

Asmith at 00:37, 30 November 2025

2025-11-30T00:37:18Z

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	According to some [[Du'aah~~\|duaah~~]], the Qur'an describes the ratio of land to water on Earth. That is approximately 71% water and 29% land.<ref>http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html</ref> This ratio isn't stated anywhere in the Qur'an, but according to claimants, the ratio is hidden in a ratio of word counts.		According to some [[du'aah]], the Qur'an describes the ratio of land to water on Earth. That is approximately 71% water and 29% land.<ref>http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html</ref> This ratio isn't stated anywhere in the Qur'an, but according to claimants, the ratio is hidden in a ratio of word counts.

	The counted words are ''al-barr'' (ٱلْبَرّ) for "land" and ''al-bahr'' (ٱلْبَحْرِ) for "water" (though the word ''al-bahr'' means "the sea", not "water")		The counted words are ''al-barr'' (ٱلْبَرّ) for "land" and ''al-bahr'' (ٱلْبَحْرِ) for "water" (though the word ''al-bahr'' means "the sea", not "water")

Asmith at 00:37, 30 November 2025

2025-11-30T00:37:03Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:37, 30 November 2025
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	{{QualityScore\|Lead=1\|Structure=3\|Content=4\|Language=4\|References=3}}		{{QualityScore\|Lead=1\|Structure=3\|Content=4\|Language=4\|References=3}}
	According to some [[duaah]], the Qur'an describes the ratio of land to water on Earth. That is approximately 71% water and 29% land.<ref>http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html</ref> This ratio isn't stated anywhere in the Qur'an, but according to claimants, the ratio is hidden in a ratio of word counts.		According to some [[Du'aah\|duaah]], the Qur'an describes the ratio of land to water on Earth. That is approximately 71% water and 29% land.<ref>http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html</ref> This ratio isn't stated anywhere in the Qur'an, but according to claimants, the ratio is hidden in a ratio of word counts.

	The counted words are ''al-barr'' (ٱلْبَرّ) for "land" and ''al-bahr'' (ٱلْبَحْرِ) for "water" (though the word ''al-bahr'' means "the sea", not "water")		The counted words are ''al-barr'' (ٱلْبَرّ) for "land" and ''al-bahr'' (ٱلْبَحْرِ) for "water" (though the word ''al-bahr'' means "the sea", not "water")

Asmith at 00:36, 30 November 2025

2025-11-30T00:36:42Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:36, 30 November 2025
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	{{QualityScore\|Lead=1\|Structure=3\|Content=4\|Language=4\|References=3}}		{{QualityScore\|Lead=1\|Structure=3\|Content=4\|Language=4\|References=3}}
	According to some [duaah], the Qur'an describes the ratio of land to water on Earth. That is approximately 71% water and 29% land.<ref>http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html</ref> This ratio isn't stated anywhere in the Qur'an, but according to claimants, the ratio is hidden in a ratio of word counts.		According to some [[duaah]], the Qur'an describes the ratio of land to water on Earth. That is approximately 71% water and 29% land.<ref>http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html</ref> This ratio isn't stated anywhere in the Qur'an, but according to claimants, the ratio is hidden in a ratio of word counts.

	The counted words are ''al-barr'' (ٱلْبَرّ) for "land" and ''al-bahr'' (ٱلْبَحْرِ) for "water" (though the word ''al-bahr'' means "the sea", not "water")		The counted words are ''al-barr'' (ٱلْبَرّ) for "land" and ''al-bahr'' (ٱلْبَحْرِ) for "water" (though the word ''al-bahr'' means "the sea", not "water")

Asmith at 00:36, 30 November 2025

2025-11-30T00:36:30Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:36, 30 November 2025
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	{{QualityScore\|Lead=1\|Structure=3\|Content=4\|Language=4\|References=3}}		{{QualityScore\|Lead=1\|Structure=3\|Content=4\|Language=4\|References=3}}
	According to some, the Qur'an describes the ratio of land to water on Earth. That is approximately 71% water and 29% land.<ref>http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html</ref> This ratio isn't stated anywhere in the Qur'an, but according to claimants, the ratio is hidden in a ratio of word counts.		According to some [duaah], the Qur'an describes the ratio of land to water on Earth. That is approximately 71% water and 29% land.<ref>http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html</ref> This ratio isn't stated anywhere in the Qur'an, but according to claimants, the ratio is hidden in a ratio of word counts.

	The counted words are ''al-barr'' (ٱلْبَرّ) for "land" and ''al-bahr'' (ٱلْبَحْرِ) for "water" (though the word ''al-bahr'' means "the sea", not "water")		The counted words are ''al-barr'' (ٱلْبَرّ) for "land" and ''al-bahr'' (ٱلْبَحْرِ) for "water" (though the word ''al-bahr'' means "the sea", not "water")

Asmith: /* Apologist mental gymnastics */ fixed language to be encyclopedic

2025-11-30T00:36:10Z

Apologist mental gymnastics: fixed language to be encyclopedic

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:36, 30 November 2025
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	{{QualityScore\|Lead=1\|Structure=3\|Content=4\|Language=2\|References=3}}		{{QualityScore\|Lead=1\|Structure=3\|Content=4\|Language=4\|References=3}}
	According to some, the Qur'an describes the ratio of land to water on Earth. That is approximately 71% water and 29% land.<ref>http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html</ref> This ratio isn't stated anywhere in the Qur'an, but according to claimants, the ratio is hidden in a ratio of word counts.		According to some, the Qur'an describes the ratio of land to water on Earth. That is approximately 71% water and 29% land.<ref>http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html</ref> This ratio isn't stated anywhere in the Qur'an, but according to claimants, the ratio is hidden in a ratio of word counts.

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	There are '''12 occurrences''' of this word. They are all exactly the same forms. There are no prefixes, no plural and dual forms, no differences in diacritics, like in word counts for other words. And all other words from the same root have a totally different meaning. Rarely are word counts so clear		There are '''12 occurrences''' of this word. They are all exactly the same forms. There are no prefixes, no plural and dual forms, no differences in diacritics, like in word counts for other words. And all other words from the same root have a totally different meaning. Rarely are word counts so clear

	===Apologist ~~mental gymnastics~~===		===Apologist Extenuating Claims===
	Some also count the word "creature" (ٱلْبَرِيَّةِ, ''al-bariyyati'')<ref>http://www.answering-christianity.com/land_sea_ratio_miracle.htm</ref> in these two verses:		Some apologists also count the word "creature" (ٱلْبَرِيَّةِ, ''al-bariyyati'')<ref>http://www.answering-christianity.com/land_sea_ratio_miracle.htm</ref> in these two verses:

	*1) The verse 98:6 which says that Christians and Jews are '''the worst of creatures''' (شَرُّ ٱلْبَرِيَّةِ, ''sharru albariyyati''):		*1) The verse 98:6 which says that Christians and Jews are '''the worst of creatures''' (شَرُّ ٱلْبَرِيَّةِ, ''sharru albariyyati''):
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	**The other translations also translate the word ٱلْبَرِيَّةِ (''al-bariyyati'') as "creatures".		**The other translations also translate the word ٱلْبَرِيَّةِ (''al-bariyyati'') as "creatures".

	~~Why do some chose to count the~~ word ~~"creature" as the word "land"? This is~~ because they choose to translate the word ٱلْبَرِيَّةِ (''al-bariyyati'') as "land-creatures", although ~~as we've seen,~~ all the major translations translated it simply as "creatures". ~~This group~~ argues that the word ''al-bariyyati'' is derived from the same root برر (b-r-r) as the word ''al-barr'' (land) and therefore their meanings are connected. The word ٱلْبَرِيَّةِ (''al-bariyyati''), however, lacks the double ''r''. It is derived from a completely different root برا (b-r-a) <ref>http://corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(98:6:16)</ref>! These words are not connected ~~in meaning~~. ''al-bariyyati'' ~~has nothing to do with~~ land. Furthermore, the alternate rendition of the verse suggests verse 98:6 to mean "christians and jews are the worst of land-creatures" and the verse 98:7 to mean "muslims are the best of land-creatures", implying, ~~perhaps, that~~ in ~~the sea, there are sea-creatures worse than christians and better than muslims. Such an implication is, of course, absurd, and would seem to rule out the possibility of an alternative translation~~.		They are counting this word because they choose to translate the word ٱلْبَرِيَّةِ (''al-bariyyati'') as "land-creatures" since it seems similar, although all the major translations translated it simply as "creatures". These apologists argues that the word ''al-bariyyati'' is derived from the same root برر (b-r-r) as the word ''al-barr'' (land) and therefore their meanings are connected. The word ٱلْبَرِيَّةِ (''al-bariyyati''), however, lacks shaddah on the ra', the double ''r''. It is derived from a completely different root برا (b-r-a). <ref>http://corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(98:6:16)</ref> These words are not connected linguistically. ''al-bariyyati'' does not derive its semantic meaning from "land." Furthermore, the alternate rendition of the verse suggests verse 98:6 to mean "christians and jews are the worst of land-creatures" and the verse 98:7 to mean "muslims are the best of land-creatures", implying, which doesn't make much sense in context.

	~~As we shall see, however, even~~ the inclusion of these two extra words fails to achieve the 29:71 ratio that is sought.		Even the inclusion of these two extra words, though, fails to achieve the 29:71 ratio that is sought.

	==''Al-Bahr'' - sea (not water)==		==''Al-Bahr'' - sea (not water)==
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	**''-a'' accusative		**''-a'' accusative

	This word count is questionable, because there are dual and plural forms. Should the dual be counted as 2?~~Let's do some math and convert the ratio to percentage to see whether we get the desired 29% land and 71% water percentages~~:		This word count is questionable, because there are dual and plural forms. Should the dual be counted as two instances or one? The arithmetic for both is as follows:

	*12/45 = 0.2667 that means approximately 27% land		*12/45 = 0.2667 that means approximately 27% land
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	27:73 is the word count ratio and 29:71 is the actual land to water ratio. They are not the same.		27:73 is the word count ratio and 29:71 is the actual land to water ratio. They are not the same.

	If one attempts this with the 41 occurrences of the word "sea" in all its forms, and 12 + 41 = 53, then ~~you get~~:		If one attempts this with the 41 occurrences of the word "sea" in all its forms, and 12 + 41 = 53, then the result is:

	*12 / 53 = 0.2264 that means approximately 23% land		*12 / 53 = 0.2264 that means approximately 23% land
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	The only coincidence appears to be that there is more of the word "sea" than "land", just like there is more water than land on earth.		The only coincidence appears to be that there is more of the word "sea" than "land", just like there is more water than land on earth.

	==Further ~~Problems~~==		==Further Issues==
	Additionally, the word ''al-bahr'' means "sea" and not water. ~~Does~~ the ~~word "sea" include oceans~~, lakes ~~or rivers? And~~ the Qur'an ~~talks about~~ rivers (أَنْهَٰرٌ, ''al-anharun'') ~~a lot. So shouldn't we add the~~ word ~~counts for "sea" and "river" to get the "water" percentage?~~		Additionally, the word ''al-bahr'' means "sea" and not water. The scientific fact is based on the total surface of earth land and water, including lakes, enclosed seas, and river. Yet the Qur'an speaks of rivers (أَنْهَٰرٌ, ''al-anharun'') but this word is not included in the word-count "miracle."

	It is ~~also worth noting that~~ the word ~~counts for~~ "~~land~~" ~~and "sea" are not in the same ratio as land and water on earth.~~

	==See also==		==See also==

Asmith at 23:24, 25 February 2021

2021-02-25T23:24:36Z

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	[[Category:Miracles]]		[[Category:Miracles]]
	[[Category:~~Quran~~]]		[[Category:Qur'an]]
	[[Category:~~Miracles~~]]		[[Category:Arabic]]

Asmith: /* References */

2021-02-25T23:21:39Z

References

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:21, 25 February 2021
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	{{Reflist\|30em}}		{{Reflist\|30em}}

			[[Category:Miracles]]
			[[Category:Quran]]
	[[Category:Miracles]]		[[Category:Miracles]]

IbnPinker at 22:51, 17 August 2020

2020-08-17T22:51:02Z

Show changes

IbnPinker at 18:41, 28 July 2020

2020-07-28T18:41:45Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:41, 28 July 2020
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			{{QualityScore\|Lead=1\|Structure=3\|Content=4\|Language=2\|References=3}}
	According to some apologists, the Qur'an describes the ratio of land to water on Earth. That is approximately 71% water and 29% land.<ref>http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html</ref> This ratio isn't stated anywhere in the Qur'an, but according to apologists, the ratio is supposed to be hidden in a ratio of word counts.		According to some apologists, the Qur'an describes the ratio of land to water on Earth. That is approximately 71% water and 29% land.<ref>http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html</ref> This ratio isn't stated anywhere in the Qur'an, but according to apologists, the ratio is supposed to be hidden in a ratio of word counts.