Les erreurs scientifiques du Coran - Revision history

Bajap: translating 60%

2024-06-06T18:31:32Z

translating 60%

Bajap: /* Allah smites with thunderbolts */

2024-06-06T13:49:45Z

Allah smites with thunderbolts

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:49, 6 June 2024
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	Tafsirs such as al-Jalalayn and the one attributed to Ibn Abbas say that this means mountains in the sky.<ref>[https://tafsir.app/jalalayn/24/43 Tafsir al-Jalalayn 24:43]</ref> Ibn Kathir notes two views, that these are literally mountains of hail in the sky, or that they are a metaphor for clouds.<ref>[https://tafsir.app/ibn-katheer/24/43 Tafsir Ibn Kathir 24:43]</ref> Clouds could poetically be described as mountains in the sky, but the verse says "mountains of hail in the sky", which critics would say strongly suggests large masses of ice (in the clouds or otherwise), and it was sometimes understood in this literal way as evidenced in tafsirs.		Tafsirs such as al-Jalalayn and the one attributed to Ibn Abbas say that this means mountains in the sky.<ref>[https://tafsir.app/jalalayn/24/43 Tafsir al-Jalalayn 24:43]</ref> Ibn Kathir notes two views, that these are literally mountains of hail in the sky, or that they are a metaphor for clouds.<ref>[https://tafsir.app/ibn-katheer/24/43 Tafsir Ibn Kathir 24:43]</ref> Clouds could poetically be described as mountains in the sky, but the verse says "mountains of hail in the sky", which critics would say strongly suggests large masses of ice (in the clouds or otherwise), and it was sometimes understood in this literal way as evidenced in tafsirs.

	===Allah ~~smites with thunderbolts~~===		===Allah frappe avec la foudre===

	~~The Quran describes thunder and lightning in a manner typical of ancient mythology~~. Allah, ~~in a manner evocative of the legends most famously regarding~~ Zeus, ~~smites persons he wishes to punish with thunderbolts~~. A hadith, ~~graded~~ hasan (~~good~~) by Dar-us-Salam, ~~further states that Muhammad believed the sound of thunder was an angel striking the clouds~~, ~~which the angel drives along with a piece of fire~~ (~~evoking the~~ image ~~of a whip of fire~~).		Le Coran décrit le tonnerre et les éclairs d'une manière typique de la mythologie ancienne. Allah, d'une manière qui évoque les légendes les plus célèbres concernant Zeus, frappe les personnes qu'il souhaite punir avec des foudres. Un hadith, classé hasan (bon) par Dar-us-Salam, indique en outre que Mahomet croyait que le bruit du tonnerre était celui d'un ange frappant les nuages, que l'ange conduisait avec un morceau de feu (évoquant l'image d'un fouet de feu).

	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|13\|13}}\|		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|13\|13}}\|
	~~And the thunder declares His glory with His praise~~, ~~and the angels too for awe of Him; and He sends the thunderbolts and smites with them whom He pleases~~, ~~yet they dispute concerning~~ Allah, ~~and He is mighty in prowess.~~}}		Et le tonnerre proclame Sa gloire et Sa louange, et les anges aussi, par crainte de Lui. Il envoie les foudres et en frappe qui Il veut, alors qu'ils discutent au sujet d'Allah, et qu'Il est le plus puissant}}

	{{Quote\|{{Al Tirmidhi\|44\|5\|44\|3117}}\|~~Narrated~~ Ibn 'Abbas:		{{Quote\|{{Al Tirmidhi\|44\|5\|44\|3117}}\|Raconté par Ibn 'Abbas :
	~~"The Jews came to the Prophet~~ (ﷺ) ~~and said~~: 'O Abul-Qasim~~! Inform us about the thunder~~, ~~what is it~~?' ~~He said~~: ~~'An angel among the angels~~, ~~who is responsible for the clouds~~. ~~He has~~ a ~~piece of fire wherever that he drives the clouds wherever~~ Allah ~~wills~~.~~' They said~~: ~~'Then what is this noise we hear~~?' ~~He said:~~ '~~It is him~~, ~~striking the clouds when he drives them on, until it goes where it is ordered~~.~~' They said~~: ~~'You have told the truth~~.'}}		Les juifs vinrent trouver le Prophète (ﷺ) et dirent : " Ô Abul-Qasim, informe-nous du tonnerre, qu'est-ce que c'est ? ". Informe-nous sur le tonnerre, qu'est-ce que c'est ? Il répondit : " Un ange parmi les anges, qui est responsable des nuages. Il a un morceau de feu où qu'il conduise les nuages là où Allah le veut. Ils dirent : "Quel est donc ce bruit que nous entendons ?" Il dit : "C'est lui qui frappe les nuages lorsqu'il les fait avancer, jusqu'à ce qu'ils aillent là où il leur a été ordonné". Ils dirent : "Tu as dit la vérité".}}

	==~~Zoology~~==		==Zoologie==

	===Ants converse and recognize humans===		===Ants converse and recognize humans===
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	And assuredly We gave David grace from Us, (saying): O ye hills and birds, echo his psalms of praise! And We made the iron supple unto him}}		And assuredly We gave David grace from Us, (saying): O ye hills and birds, echo his psalms of praise! And We made the iron supple unto him}}

	==~~Other~~==		==Autres==

	===~~Nonmathematical hereditary laws~~===		===Lois héréditaires non mathématiques===

	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|4\|11-12}}\|		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|4\|11-12}}\|

Asmith at 01:18, 8 May 2024

2024-05-08T01:18:22Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:18, 8 May 2024
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	{{QualityScore\|Lead=2\|Structure=4\|Content=4\|Language=3\|References=3}}Une critique courante envers le Coran , est qu'il contient de nombreuses erreurs scientifiques et historiques. Le coran ne cherche pas à différencier le monde réel et des événements fictifs du folklore commun et des fausses croyances des personnes vivant au 7ème siècle en Arabie . Les apologistes de l'islam font généralement appel à la métaphore, aux interprétation alternatives. Ils soutiennent également que le contenu du coran devait être compréhensible pour les gens de son temps. Les critiques leur rétoque qu'un communicateur parfait et omniscient aurait néanmoins '''pu éviter les déclarations dans le Coran qui renforçaient les fausses croyances de l'époque''', faisaient douter les générations futures de sa perfection car le coran aura de ce faite, toutes les caractéristiques d'une œuvre humaine de son temps.		{{QualityScore\|Lead=2\|Structure=4\|Content=4\|Language=3\|References=3}}
			Il y a une nouvelle version de WikiIslam en français.
			Pour la dernière version de cette page, vous pouvez voir le wiki en français [https://fr.wikiislam.net/wiki/Accueil ici]

			Une critique courante envers le Coran , est qu'il contient de nombreuses erreurs scientifiques et historiques. Le coran ne cherche pas à différencier le monde réel et des événements fictifs du folklore commun et des fausses croyances des personnes vivant au 7ème siècle en Arabie . Les apologistes de l'islam font généralement appel à la métaphore, aux interprétation alternatives. Ils soutiennent également que le contenu du coran devait être compréhensible pour les gens de son temps. Les critiques leur rétoque qu'un communicateur parfait et omniscient aurait néanmoins '''pu éviter les déclarations dans le Coran qui renforçaient les fausses croyances de l'époque''', faisaient douter les générations futures de sa perfection car le coran aura de ce faite, toutes les caractéristiques d'une œuvre humaine de son temps.

	==Astronomie==		==Astronomie==

Lightyears: Great translation work, Bajap ! I just added the most up to date English text for the part of the article which remains to be translated as some small improvements and corrections have been made since March 2022.

2023-02-10T01:12:34Z

Great translation work, Bajap ! I just added the most up to date English text for the part of the article which remains to be translated as some small improvements and corrections have been made since March 2022.

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:12, 10 February 2023
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	===Mary as part of the Trinity===		===Mary as part of the Trinity===

	Mainstream Christian doctrine has never held Mary to be a part of the Trinity. The Qur'an, however, ~~plainly states~~ as much, leading ~~some~~ to conclude that Muhammad misunderstood Christian doctrine.		Mainstream Christian doctrine has never held Mary to be a part of the Trinity. The Qur'an, however, apparently implies as much, leading many to conclude that Muhammad misunderstood Christian doctrine.

	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|5\|116}}\|		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|5\|116}}\|
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	{{Quote\|{{Quran-range\|5\|72\|75}}\|They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers. '''They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three'''; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him? For Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. '''The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger''', messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. '''And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food.''' See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!}}		{{Quote\|{{Quran-range\|5\|72\|75}}\|They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers. '''They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three'''; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him? For Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. '''The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger''', messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. '''And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food.''' See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!}}

			A common interpretation advocated by Muslim scholars today is that this refers to a fringe Arab Christian sect known as the Collyridians. However, this sect were only mentioned in a 4th century CE book on heresies. The most plausible alternative interpretation proposed so far relates these verses to a Byzantine theological dispute and contemporary war propaganda (for details, see the Qur'anic Trinity section of the article [[Parallels Between the Qur'an and Late Antique Judeo-Christian Literature]]).

	===Mary as Miriam===		===Mary as Miriam===
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	===~~Samaritans~~ in ancient Egypt===		===Samarians in ancient Egypt===
	The Qu'ran states that Moses dealt with a ~~Samaritan~~ during his time~~, however~~ the ~~Samaritans~~ did not exist until well over half a millennium ~~after Moses is supposed to have existed. The term s''amari'' itself comes from the city of Samaria, an archaeologically evidenced city built by King Omri around 870BC, nearly 700 years~~ after Moses is supposed to have existed.		The Qu'ran states that Moses dealt with a Samarian during his time. However the Samarians did not exist until well over half a millennium after Moses is supposed to have existed.

	The likely ~~source~~ of ~~this~~ confusion is the story in the Bible in Hosea 8:5-6 where there is mentioned ~~another~~ golden calf ~~worshipped by Samaritans~~ after the time of Solomon. One modern perspective holds that the Qur'an might be referring to Zimri, son of Salu (Numbers 25:14). However, the Quranic character is referred to three times in {{Quran-range\|20\|85\|88}} as l-sāmiriyu with the definite article, "the Samiri", so this is a descriptive title rather than a proper name.		Oxford Bibliographies (an academic website) says the following:

			{{Quote\|[https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780195393361/obo-9780195393361-0176.xml Oxford Bibliographies - Samaria/Samaritans]\|Samaria (Hebrew: Shomron) is mentioned in the Bible in 1 Kings 16:24 as the name of the mountain on which Omri, ruler of the northern Israelite kingdom in the 9th century BCE, built his capital, naming it also Samaria. After the conquest of the Northern Kingdom by the Assyrians in 722/721 BCE, the district surrounding the city was likewise called Samaria (Assyrian: Samerina). The Bible presents an etiology or folk etymology when it claims that the city was named after Shemer, the original owner from whom Omri bought the hill. It is more likely that the name is derived from the root šmr, to “watch, to guard”; that is, the hill was a point from which particularly the north–south route could be watched and guarded.}}

			The likely root of the Quranic confusion is the story in the Bible, [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea%208&version=NIV Hosea 8:5-8] or [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Kings%2012&version=NIV 1 Kings 12:25-29] where there is mentioned a golden calf (or two of them) created in Samaria after the time of Solomon. One modern perspective holds that the Qur'an might be referring to Zimri, son of Salu (Numbers 25:14). However, the Quranic character is referred to three times in {{Quran-range\|20\|85\|88}} as l-sāmiriyu with the definite article, "the Samiri", so this is a descriptive title rather than a proper name.

	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|20\|85}}\|“( Allah) said; ‘We have tested thy people in thy absence: the Samiri has led them astray’.” }}{{Quote\|{{Quran\|20\|95}}\|“( Moses) said, ‘What then is thy case, O Samiri?’”}}		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|20\|85}}\|“( Allah) said; ‘We have tested thy people in thy absence: the Samiri has led them astray’.” }}{{Quote\|{{Quran\|20\|95}}\|“( Moses) said, ‘What then is thy case, O Samiri?’”}}
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	===Flood waters boiled from an oven===		===Flood waters boiled from an oven===

	~~The~~ Qur'an further describes the flood waters as boiling from an oven. There is no scientific nor historical evidence for a large flood of this nature. This element is not found even in more ancient versions of the story (Epic of Gilgamesh, Atra hasis, and Ziusudra). Its ultimate origin appears to be a highly tenuous rabbinical exergisis in the Babylonian Talmud, based on a word in an unrelated verse that means heat or wrath.<ref>[https://biblehub.com/lexicon/esther/7-10.htm biblehub.com]</ref>		Aside from waters pouring from gates in the heaven, the Qur'an further describes the flood waters as boiling from an oven. There is no scientific nor historical evidence for a large flood of this nature. This element is not found even in more ancient versions of the story (Epic of Gilgamesh, Atra hasis, and Ziusudra). Its ultimate origin appears to be a highly tenuous rabbinical exergisis in the Babylonian Talmud, based on a word in an unrelated verse that means heat or wrath.<ref>[https://biblehub.com/lexicon/esther/7-10.htm biblehub.com]</ref>

	{{Quote\|1=[https://www.sefaria.org/Rosh_Hashanah.12a.4?lang=bi Tracate Rosh Hashanah]\|2=The Gemara answers: Even according to Rabbi Eliezer a change was made, in accordance with the statement of Rav Ḥisda, as Rav Ḥisda said: They sinned with boiling heat, and they were punished with boiling heat; they sinned with the boiling heat of the sin of forbidden sexual relations, and they were punished with the boiling heat of scalding waters. This is derived from a verbal analogy. It is written here, with regard to the flood: “And the waters abated” (Genesis 8:1), and it is written elsewhere, with regard to King Ahasuerus: “And the heated anger of the king abated” (Esther 7:10), which implies that the word “abated” means cooled. This indicates that at first the waters of the flood had been scalding hot.}}		{{Quote\|1=[https://www.sefaria.org/Rosh_Hashanah.12a.4?lang=bi Tracate Rosh Hashanah]\|2=The Gemara answers: Even according to Rabbi Eliezer a change was made, in accordance with the statement of Rav Ḥisda, as Rav Ḥisda said: They sinned with boiling heat, and they were punished with boiling heat; they sinned with the boiling heat of the sin of forbidden sexual relations, and they were punished with the boiling heat of scalding waters. This is derived from a verbal analogy. It is written here, with regard to the flood: “And the waters abated” (Genesis 8:1), and it is written elsewhere, with regard to King Ahasuerus: “And the heated anger of the king abated” (Esther 7:10), which implies that the word “abated” means cooled. This indicates that at first the waters of the flood had been scalding hot.}}
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	===Supernatural food===		===Supernatural food===
	~~{{Main\|Parallelism Between the~~ Qur'an ~~and Judeo-Christian Scriptures}}~~		The Qur'an states that Jesus received a feast sent down from heaven. There have, however, never been any scientifically verified accounts of food descending from heaven.

	~~The Qur'an states Mary received food sent down from heaven. There have, however, never been any scientifically verified accounts of food descending from heaven.~~		{{Quote\|{{Quran-range\|5\|114\|115}}\|
			Jesus, son of Mary, said: O Allah, Lord of us! '''Send down for us a table spread with food from heaven, that it may be a feast for us''', for the first of us and for the last of us, and a sign from Thee. Give us sustenance, for Thou art the Best of Sustainers. Allah said: Lo! I send it down for you. And whoso disbelieveth of you afterward, him surely will I punish with a punishment wherewith I have not punished any of (My) creatures.}}
	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|5\|114}}\|
	Jesus, son of Mary, said: O Allah, Lord of us! '''Send down for us a table spread with food from heaven, that it may be a feast for us''', for the first of us and for the last of us, and a sign from Thee. Give us sustenance, for Thou art the Best of Sustainers.}}

	===Stick turned serpent===		===Stick turned serpent===
	~~{{Main\|Parallelism Between the Qur'an and Judeo-Christian Scriptures}}~~The Quran states that Moses' staff transformed into a serpent. There is no scientific evidence that suggests such a transformation would be possible.{{Quote\|{{Quran\|7\|107}}\|		The Quran states that Moses' staff transformed into a serpent. There is no scientific evidence that suggests such a transformation would be possible.{{Quote\|{{Quran\|7\|107}}\|
	Then (Moses) threw his rod, and behold! it was a serpent, plain (for all to see)! }}		Then (Moses) threw his rod, and behold! it was a serpent, plain (for all to see)! }}

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	And Solomon was David's heir. He said: "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things: this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)And before Solomon were marshalled his hosts― of Jinns and men and birds, and they were all kept in order and ranks.}}		And Solomon was David's heir. He said: "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds, and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things: this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)And before Solomon were marshalled his hosts― of Jinns and men and birds, and they were all kept in order and ranks.}}

	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|27\|20-22}}\|		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|27\|20-23}}\|
	And he took a muster of the Birds; and he said: "Why is it I see not the Hoopoe? Or is he among the absentees? I will certainly punish him with a severe Penalty, or execute him, unless he bring me a clear reason (for absence).}}		And he took a muster of the Birds; and he said: "Why is it I see not the Hoopoe? Or is he among the absentees? I will certainly punish him with a severe Penalty, or execute him, unless he bring me a clear reason (for absence). But the Hoopoe tarried not far: he (came up and) said: "I have compassed (territory) which thou hast not compassed, and I have come to thee from Saba with tidings true. I found (there) a woman ruling over them and provided with every requisite; and she has a magnificent throne.}}

	~~{{Quote\|{{Quran\|27\|23}}\|~~
	I found (there) a woman ruling over them and provided with every requisite; and she has a magnificent throne.}}

	===Living inside a big fish===		===Living inside a big fish===

Bajap: Traduction 2/3

2023-01-29T10:55:55Z

Traduction 2/3

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Bajap: temporary translation

2023-01-27T17:50:57Z

temporary translation

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Bajap: translation save please

2022-09-22T14:17:25Z

translation save please

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Bajap at 10:18, 13 September 2022

2022-09-13T10:18:14Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:18, 13 September 2022
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	{{QualityScore\|Lead=2\|Structure=4\|Content=4\|Language=3\|References=3}}~~A common criticism of the [[Quran]]~~, ~~[[Scientific Errors in the Hadith\|as with the Hadith]], is that it contains numerous [[Islam and Science\|scientific]] and [[Historical Errors in the Qur~~'~~an\|historical errors]], with no obvious attempts to differentiate its understanding of the natural world and historical events from the common~~ folklore ~~and misconceptions of the people living in 7<sup>th</sup> century Arabia~~. ~~Modern responses typically appeal to metaphor, alternative meanings~~, ~~or phenomenological interpretations of such verses~~. ~~They also argue that the wording needed to be acceptable to people of its time~~. ~~Critics typically argue that an all-knowing~~, ~~perfect communicator would nevertheless have been able to avoid statements in the Quran that reinforced misconceptions of the time, caused future generations to have doubts about its~~ perfection, ~~and on a scale that critics contend is an overwhelming weakness~~.		{{QualityScore\|Lead=2\|Structure=4\|Content=4\|Language=3\|References=3}}Une critique courante envers le Coran , est qu'il contient de nombreuses erreurs scientifiques et historiques. Le coran ne cherche pas à différencier le monde réel et des événements fictifs du folklore commun et des fausses croyances des personnes vivant au 7ème siècle en Arabie . Les apologistes de l'islam font généralement appel à la métaphore, aux interprétation alternatives. Ils soutiennent également que le contenu du coran devait être compréhensible pour les gens de son temps. Les critiques leur rétoque qu'un communicateur parfait et omniscient aurait néanmoins '''pu éviter les déclarations dans le Coran qui renforçaient les fausses croyances de l'époque''', faisaient douter les générations futures de sa perfection car le coran aura de ce faite, toutes les caractéristiques d'une œuvre humaine de son temps.

	==~~Astronomy~~==		==Astronomie==

	===~~Geocentricism~~===		===Geocentricisme===
	{{Main\|Geocentrism and the Quran\|l1=Geocentrism and the Qur'an}}		{{Main\|Geocentrism and the Quran\|l1=Geocentrism and the Qur'an}}

Asmith at 07:58, 11 September 2022

2022-09-11T07:58:11Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:58, 11 September 2022
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	{{{QualityScore\|Lead=2\|Structure=4\|Content=4\|Language=3\|References=3}}A common criticism of the [[Quran]], [[Scientific Errors in the Hadith\|as with the Hadith]], is that it contains numerous [[Islam and Science\|scientific]] and [[Historical Errors in the Qur'an\|historical errors]], with no obvious attempts to differentiate its understanding of the natural world and historical events from the common folklore and misconceptions of the people living in 7<sup>th</sup> century Arabia. Modern responses typically appeal to metaphor, alternative meanings, or phenomenological interpretations of such verses. They also argue that the wording needed to be acceptable to people of its time. Critics typically argue that an all-knowing, perfect communicator would nevertheless have been able to avoid statements in the Quran that reinforced misconceptions of the time, caused future generations to have doubts about its perfection, and on a scale that critics contend is an overwhelming weakness.		{{QualityScore\|Lead=2\|Structure=4\|Content=4\|Language=3\|References=3}}A common criticism of the [[Quran]], [[Scientific Errors in the Hadith\|as with the Hadith]], is that it contains numerous [[Islam and Science\|scientific]] and [[Historical Errors in the Qur'an\|historical errors]], with no obvious attempts to differentiate its understanding of the natural world and historical events from the common folklore and misconceptions of the people living in 7<sup>th</sup> century Arabia. Modern responses typically appeal to metaphor, alternative meanings, or phenomenological interpretations of such verses. They also argue that the wording needed to be acceptable to people of its time. Critics typically argue that an all-knowing, perfect communicator would nevertheless have been able to avoid statements in the Quran that reinforced misconceptions of the time, caused future generations to have doubts about its perfection, and on a scale that critics contend is an overwhelming weakness.

	==Astronomy==		==Astronomy==

Bajap at 09:04, 9 September 2022

2022-09-09T09:04:57Z

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