Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Predestination - Revision history

Lightyears at 01:01, 14 November 2025

2025-11-14T01:01:27Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:01, 14 November 2025
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	===Miscellaneous===		===Miscellaneous===

	{{Quote\|{{Abu Dawud 4713}}		{{Quote\|{{Abu Dawud\|\|4713\|darussalam}}
	\|‘A’ishah, mother of the believers, said :		\|‘A’ishah, mother of the believers, said :
	The Prophet (May peace be upon him) was invited to the funeral of a boy who belonged to the Ansar and I said; Messenger of Allah! This one is blessed, for he has done no evil, nor has he known it. He replied : It may be otherwise, ‘A’ishah, for '''Allah created Paradise and created those who will go to it, and He created it for them when they were still in their father’s loins; and he created hell and created those who will go to it, and created it for them when they were still in their father’s loins'''.}}		The Prophet (May peace be upon him) was invited to the funeral of a boy who belonged to the Ansar and I said; Messenger of Allah! This one is blessed, for he has done no evil, nor has he known it. He replied : It may be otherwise, ‘A’ishah, for '''Allah created Paradise and created those who will go to it, and He created it for them when they were still in their father’s loins; and he created hell and created those who will go to it, and created it for them when they were still in their father’s loins'''.}}

Lightyears: Automated script replacing USC-MSA hadith numbering system for Bukhari, Muslim, and Abu Dawud

2025-11-14T01:00:04Z

Automated script replacing USC-MSA hadith numbering system for Bukhari, Muslim, and Abu Dawud

Show changes

CPO675: /* Allah knows people and jinn will disbelieve and go to hell */ Added one more verse/concept implying predestination, linking to the already written article Inshallah.

2025-09-07T12:59:56Z

Allah knows people and jinn will disbelieve and go to hell: Added one more verse/concept implying predestination, linking to the already written article Inshallah.

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:59, 7 September 2025
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	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|32\|13}}\|And if We had willed, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me will come into effect [that] "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and people all together.}}{{Quote\|{{Quran\|7\|179}}\|And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. They have hearts with which they do not understand, they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear. Those are like livestock; rather, they are more astray. It is they who are the heedless.}}		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|32\|13}}\|And if We had willed, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me will come into effect [that] "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and people all together.}}{{Quote\|{{Quran\|7\|179}}\|And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. They have hearts with which they do not understand, they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear. Those are like livestock; rather, they are more astray. It is they who are the heedless.}}

			=== Human emotions and actions only happen if God is willing ===
			{{Main\|Inshallah_(If_Allah_Wills)}}In the second half of this verse Abraham's son (identified as Ishmael in Islamic tradition) does not simply say he will be patient (or try to be patient), as one would expect someone with free will to say, but rather he will be patient only if God wishes/wills him to be so.<ref>Reynolds, Gabriel Said. ''Allah: God in the Qur'an (pp. 53-54).'' Yale University Press. Kindle Edition.</ref> Other prophets use this language with the Qur'anic quotes being listed in the [[Inshallah (If Allah Wills)#In%20the%20Quran\|main article]], seemingly not immune from God interfering in human emotions and affairs that affect the concept of a test.{{Quote\|{{Quran\|37\|102}}\|Then when he reached the (age of) working with him he said, "O my son! Indeed, I have seen in the dream that I am sacrificing you, so look what you see." He said, "O my father! Do what you are commanded. <b>You will find me, if Allah wills, of the patient ones."</b>}}
	==Hadith==		==Hadith==

CPO675: /* Allah Decides the Fate of Every Soul */ Have taken out the start of Q7:179 in the above section covering Q7:178-179 and added it here, as I believe it is more accurately placed under this heading (covering knowingly creating people & jinn for hell), and worth highlighting the full quote.

2025-08-31T20:12:53Z

Allah Decides the Fate of Every Soul: Have taken out the start of Q7:179 in the above section covering Q7:178-179 and added it here, as I believe it is more accurately placed under this heading (covering knowingly creating people & jinn for hell), and worth highlighting the full quote.

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:12, 31 August 2025
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	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|6\|125}}\|Those whom Allah wills to guide, He opens their breast to Islam; '''Those whom He wills to leave straying, - he makes their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies''': thus does Allah lay abomination on those who refuse to believe.}}		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|6\|125}}\|Those whom Allah wills to guide, He opens their breast to Islam; '''Those whom He wills to leave straying, - he makes their breast close and constricted, as if they had to climb up to the skies''': thus does Allah lay abomination on those who refuse to believe.}}

	{{Quote\|{{Quran~~-range~~\|7\|178~~\|179~~}}\|'''Whomsoever Allah guides''', he is the one who follows the right way; '''and whomsoever He causes to err''', these are the losers~~. Many are the Jinns and men '''we have made for Hell'''~~.}}		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|7\|178}}\|'''Whomsoever Allah guides''', he is the one who follows the right way; '''and whomsoever He causes to err''', these are the losers. }}

	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|11\|34}}\|My counsel will not profit you if I were minded to advise you, '''if Allah’s will is to keep you astray'''. He is your Lord and unto Him ye will be brought back. }}		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|11\|34}}\|My counsel will not profit you if I were minded to advise you, '''if Allah’s will is to keep you astray'''. He is your Lord and unto Him ye will be brought back. }}
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	=== Allah knows people and jinn will disbelieve and go to hell ===		=== Allah knows people and jinn will disbelieve and go to hell ===
	The second part of this verse confirms God is sure at least some people (and jinn) will be put into hell, and apparently therefore could not pass the 'test'.		The second part of this verse confirms God is sure at least some people (and jinn) will be put into hell, and apparently therefore could not pass the 'test'.
	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|32\|13}}\|And if We had willed, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me will come into effect [that] "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and people all together.}}		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|32\|13}}\|And if We had willed, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me will come into effect [that] "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and people all together.}}{{Quote\|{{Quran\|7\|179}}\|And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. They have hearts with which they do not understand, they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear. Those are like livestock; rather, they are more astray. It is they who are the heedless.}}

	==Hadith==		==Hadith==

CPO675: /* Allah knows children will become disbelievers */ Have removed Abu Lahab section and re-written hadith sentence as mentioned in the notes - please let me know if you want me to delete it altogether.

2024-09-27T22:16:56Z

Allah knows children will become disbelievers: Have removed Abu Lahab section and re-written hadith sentence as mentioned in the notes - please let me know if you want me to delete it altogether.

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:16, 27 September 2024
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	18:79 As for the ship, it belonged to poor people working at sea. So I intended to cause defect in it as there was after them a king who seized every [good] ship by force.		18:79 As for the ship, it belonged to poor people working at sea. So I intended to cause defect in it as there was after them a king who seized every [good] ship by force.
	<b> 18:80 And as for the boy, his parents were believers, and we feared that he would overburden them by transgression and disbelief.		<b> 18:80 And as for the boy, his parents were believers, and we feared that he would overburden them by transgression and disbelief.
	18:81 So we intended that their Lord should substitute for them one better than him in purity and nearer to mercy. </b>}}Interestingly this story is quoted in a hadith relating to war ~~saying you should only kill children who you can know who, or distinguish who will become non-believers~~.		18:81 So we intended that their Lord should substitute for them one better than him in purity and nearer to mercy. </b>}}Interestingly this story is quoted in a hadith relating to war.
	{{Quote\|{{Muslim\|19\|4457}}\|This tradition has been narrated by the game authority (Yazid b. Hurmus) through a different chain of transmitters with the following difference in the elucidation of one of the points raised by Najda in his letter to Ibn Abas:		{{Quote\|{{Muslim\|19\|4457}}\|This tradition has been narrated by the game authority (Yazid b. Hurmus) through a different chain of transmitters with the following difference in the elucidation of one of the points raised by Najda in his letter to Ibn Abas:

	The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) used not to kill the children, so thou shouldst not kill them unless you could know what Khadir had known about the child he killed, or you could distinguish between a child who would grow up to he a believer (and a child who would grow up to be a non-believer), so that you killed the (prospective) non-believer and left the (prospective) believer aside.}}		The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) used not to kill the children, so thou shouldst not kill them unless you could know what Khadir had known about the child he killed, or you could distinguish between a child who would grow up to he a believer (and a child who would grow up to be a non-believer), so that you killed the (prospective) non-believer and left the (prospective) believer aside.}}

	~~=== Abu Lahab and his wife were destined for hell ===~~
	In this surah Allah knows Abu Lahab (allegedly a strong opponent of Muhammad) and his wife,<ref>[https://quranx.com/tafsirs/111.5 ''Tafsir Ibn Kathir on surah 111.''] Ibn Kathir d.1373</ref> will go to hell before they have died, making their actions beyond that point meaningless.
	~~{{Quote\|{{Quran\|111\|1-5}}\|“Perished be the hands of Abu Lahab and ruined he be,~~
	~~Neither his wealth nor what he has earned shall avail him.~~
	~~He shall shortly roast in a flaming fire.~~
	~~And his wife — laden with faggots, Shall have a rope of palm fiber round her neck.}}~~
	This is also hard to square with the common notion that the Quran is eternal, as for this to make sense there would have always have had to have been an enemy of the prophet born at the same time with the same name, who's wife would also be an enemy, which makes one wonder how he could have been tested on Earth - though this would fit the Islamic concept of predestination/Qadar.<ref>''[https://islamqa.info/en/answers/34732/what-is-qadar-in-islam What Is Qadar in Islam?]'' Risalat Sharh Usul al-Iman by Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymin. 2010. IslamQA.</ref>
	~~{{Quote\|{{Quran\|85\|21-22}}\|This is indeed the glorious Qur'an. in a preserved tablet}}~~

	=== Allah knows people and jinn will disbelieve and go to hell ===		=== Allah knows people and jinn will disbelieve and go to hell ===

CPO675: /* Allah knows children will become disbelievers */ Found a hadith putting this rather poor moral lesson into action in war on only allowing children to be killed if they are also know or believed to become unbelievers.

2024-08-31T14:41:25Z

Allah knows children will become disbelievers: Found a hadith putting this rather poor moral lesson into action in war on only allowing children to be killed if they are also know or believed to become unbelievers.

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:41, 31 August 2024
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	18:79 As for the ship, it belonged to poor people working at sea. So I intended to cause defect in it as there was after them a king who seized every [good] ship by force.		18:79 As for the ship, it belonged to poor people working at sea. So I intended to cause defect in it as there was after them a king who seized every [good] ship by force.
	<b> 18:80 And as for the boy, his parents were believers, and we feared that he would overburden them by transgression and disbelief.		<b> 18:80 And as for the boy, his parents were believers, and we feared that he would overburden them by transgression and disbelief.
	18:81 So we intended that their Lord should substitute for them one better than him in purity and nearer to mercy. </b>}}		18:81 So we intended that their Lord should substitute for them one better than him in purity and nearer to mercy. </b>}}Interestingly this story is quoted in a hadith relating to war saying you should only kill children who you can know who, or distinguish who will become non-believers.
			{{Quote\|{{Muslim\|19\|4457}}\|This tradition has been narrated by the game authority (Yazid b. Hurmus) through a different chain of transmitters with the following difference in the elucidation of one of the points raised by Najda in his letter to Ibn Abas:

			The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) used not to kill the children, so thou shouldst not kill them unless you could know what Khadir had known about the child he killed, or you could distinguish between a child who would grow up to he a believer (and a child who would grow up to be a non-believer), so that you killed the (prospective) non-believer and left the (prospective) believer aside.}}

	=== Abu Lahab and his wife were destined for hell ===		=== Abu Lahab and his wife were destined for hell ===

Exmuslimfrancais at 04:59, 21 August 2024

2024-08-21T04:59:31Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:59, 21 August 2024
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	===Miscellaneous===		===Miscellaneous===

	{{Quote\|{{Abu Dawud~~\|41\|4696~~}}		{{Quote\|{{Abu Dawud 4713}}
	\|‘A’ishah, mother of the believers, said :		\|‘A’ishah, mother of the believers, said :
	The Prophet (May peace be upon him) was invited to the funeral of a boy who belonged to the ~~ANSAR~~ and I said; Messenger of Allah! This one is blessed, for he has done no evil, nor has he known it. He replied : It may be otherwise, ‘A’ishah, for '''Allah created Paradise and created those who will go to it, and He created it for them when they were still in their father’s loins; and he created hell and created those who will go to it, and created it for them when they were still in their father’s loins'''.}}		The Prophet (May peace be upon him) was invited to the funeral of a boy who belonged to the Ansar and I said; Messenger of Allah! This one is blessed, for he has done no evil, nor has he known it. He replied : It may be otherwise, ‘A’ishah, for '''Allah created Paradise and created those who will go to it, and He created it for them when they were still in their father’s loins; and he created hell and created those who will go to it, and created it for them when they were still in their father’s loins'''.}}

	{{Quote\|{{citation\|title=The History of al-Tabari\|trans_title=Ta’rikh al-rusul wa’l-muluk\|volume=vol. I\|ISBN=0-88706-562-7\|year=1989\|publisher=SUNY Press\|author=al-Tabari (d. 923)\|editor1=Franz Rosenthal\|editor2=W. Montgomery Watt\|url=https://archive.org/details/HistoryAlTabari40Vol/History_Al-Tabari_10_Vol/page/n1/mode/2up\|page=305}}<br>{{citation\|title=تاريخ الرسل والملوك\|author=أبو جعفر الطبري\|url=https://app.turath.io/book/9783\|publisher=al-Maktabah al-Shamilah\|volume=vol.1 \|page=133-34}}		{{Quote\|{{citation\|title=The History of al-Tabari\|trans_title=Ta’rikh al-rusul wa’l-muluk\|volume=vol. I\|ISBN=0-88706-562-7\|year=1989\|publisher=SUNY Press\|author=al-Tabari (d. 923)\|editor1=Franz Rosenthal\|editor2=W. Montgomery Watt\|url=https://archive.org/details/HistoryAlTabari40Vol/History_Al-Tabari_10_Vol/page/n1/mode/2up\|page=305}}<br>{{citation\|title=تاريخ الرسل والملوك\|author=أبو جعفر الطبري\|url=https://app.turath.io/book/9783\|publisher=al-Maktabah al-Shamilah\|volume=vol.1 \|page=133-34}}

Exmuslimfrancais at 04:55, 21 August 2024

2024-08-21T04:55:59Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:55, 21 August 2024
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	===Miscellaneous===		===Miscellaneous===

	{{Quote\|{{~~Sunan~~ Abu Dawud ~~4713~~}}		{{Quote\|{{Abu Dawud\|41\|4696}}
	\|‘A’ishah, mother of the believers, said :		\|‘A’ishah, mother of the believers, said :
	The Prophet (May peace be upon him) was invited to the funeral of a boy who belonged to the ANSAR and I said; Messenger of Allah! This one is blessed, for he has done no evil, nor has he known it. He replied : It may be otherwise, ‘A’ishah, for '''Allah created Paradise and created those who will go to it, and He created it for them when they were still in their father’s loins; and he created hell and created those who will go to it, and created it for them when they were still in their father’s loins'''.}}		The Prophet (May peace be upon him) was invited to the funeral of a boy who belonged to the ANSAR and I said; Messenger of Allah! This one is blessed, for he has done no evil, nor has he known it. He replied : It may be otherwise, ‘A’ishah, for '''Allah created Paradise and created those who will go to it, and He created it for them when they were still in their father’s loins; and he created hell and created those who will go to it, and created it for them when they were still in their father’s loins'''.}}

Exmuslimfrancais: Added a reference

2024-08-21T04:54:21Z

Added a reference

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:54, 21 August 2024
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	===Miscellaneous===		===Miscellaneous===

			{{Quote\|{{Sunan Abu Dawud 4713}}
			\|‘A’ishah, mother of the believers, said :
			The Prophet (May peace be upon him) was invited to the funeral of a boy who belonged to the ANSAR and I said; Messenger of Allah! This one is blessed, for he has done no evil, nor has he known it. He replied : It may be otherwise, ‘A’ishah, for '''Allah created Paradise and created those who will go to it, and He created it for them when they were still in their father’s loins; and he created hell and created those who will go to it, and created it for them when they were still in their father’s loins'''.}}

	{{Quote\|{{citation\|title=The History of al-Tabari\|trans_title=Ta’rikh al-rusul wa’l-muluk\|volume=vol. I\|ISBN=0-88706-562-7\|year=1989\|publisher=SUNY Press\|author=al-Tabari (d. 923)\|editor1=Franz Rosenthal\|editor2=W. Montgomery Watt\|url=https://archive.org/details/HistoryAlTabari40Vol/History_Al-Tabari_10_Vol/page/n1/mode/2up\|page=305}}<br>{{citation\|title=تاريخ الرسل والملوك\|author=أبو جعفر الطبري\|url=https://app.turath.io/book/9783\|publisher=al-Maktabah al-Shamilah\|volume=vol.1 \|page=133-34}}		{{Quote\|{{citation\|title=The History of al-Tabari\|trans_title=Ta’rikh al-rusul wa’l-muluk\|volume=vol. I\|ISBN=0-88706-562-7\|year=1989\|publisher=SUNY Press\|author=al-Tabari (d. 923)\|editor1=Franz Rosenthal\|editor2=W. Montgomery Watt\|url=https://archive.org/details/HistoryAlTabari40Vol/History_Al-Tabari_10_Vol/page/n1/mode/2up\|page=305}}<br>{{citation\|title=تاريخ الرسل والملوك\|author=أبو جعفر الطبري\|url=https://app.turath.io/book/9783\|publisher=al-Maktabah al-Shamilah\|volume=vol.1 \|page=133-34}}

CPO675: /* Allah Decides the Fate of Every Soul */

2024-08-18T09:44:36Z

Allah Decides the Fate of Every Soul

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:44, 18 August 2024
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	{{Quote\|{{Quran-range\|42\|44\|46}}\|'''He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him there is no protecting friend after Him'''. And thou (Muhammad) wilt see the evil-doers when they see the doom, (how) they say: Is there any way of return?… And they will have no protecting friends to help them instead of Allah. '''He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him there is no road'''.}}		{{Quote\|{{Quran-range\|42\|44\|46}}\|'''He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him there is no protecting friend after Him'''. And thou (Muhammad) wilt see the evil-doers when they see the doom, (how) they say: Is there any way of return?… And they will have no protecting friends to help them instead of Allah. '''He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him there is no road'''.}}

	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|76\|31}}\|'''He will admit to His Mercy whom He will'''; But the wrong-doers,- for them has He prepared a grievous Penalty. }}{{Quote\|{{Quran\|28\|56}}\|You cannot guide any one you like: God guides whosoever He ~~please~~. He knows best who will come to guidance.}}		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|76\|31}}\|'''He will admit to His Mercy whom He will'''; But the wrong-doers,- for them has He prepared a grievous Penalty. }}{{Quote\|{{Quran\|28\|56}}\|You cannot guide any one you like: <b>God guides whosoever He pleases.</b> He knows best who will come to guidance.}}

	===Allah Decides whether a Person Will Believe===		===Allah Decides whether a Person Will Believe===