Science and the Seven Earths - Revision history

Asmith: /* Seven Layers of the Earth */ cleaning up language

2025-12-07T05:14:23Z

Seven Layers of the Earth: cleaning up language

Asmith: /* Apologetic Claims */

2025-12-07T04:46:33Z

Apologetic Claims

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:46, 7 December 2025
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	==Apologetic Claims==		==Apologetic Claims==

	{{Quote\|\|"Allah is He Who Created seven firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends all things In (His) Knowledge. (The Noble Quran, 65:12)"		{{Quote\|https://archive.ph/97uDr#selection-472.8-489.70\|"Allah is He Who Created seven firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends all things In (His) Knowledge. (The Noble Quran, 65:12)"

	According to Noble Verse 65:12 above, Allah Almighty created 7 Heavens for form the universe. The new scientific discovery had revealed to us that the earth that we currently live on today is also formed from seven layers. The very bottom layer contains most of the uranium and potonium ("sic") and all the materials that we need to create nuclear weapons and energy. Noble Verse 65:12 above does indeed say that the earth was created with seven layers. <BR>. . .<BR>		According to Noble Verse 65:12 above, Allah Almighty created 7 Heavens for form the universe. The new scientific discovery had revealed to us that the earth that we currently live on today is also formed from seven layers. The very bottom layer contains most of the uranium and potonium ("sic") and all the materials that we need to create nuclear weapons and energy. Noble Verse 65:12 above does indeed say that the earth was created with seven layers. <BR>. . .<BR>

Lightyears at 02:20, 7 December 2025

2025-12-07T02:20:41Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:20, 7 December 2025
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	Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.}}		Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.}}

	The tradition of the seven earths is also found in hadith collections of Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and Tirmidhi.		The tradition of the seven earths is also found in hadith collections of Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and Tirmidhi:
	{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|\|\|3196\|darussalam}}\|Narrated Salim's father:		{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|\|\|3196\|darussalam}}\|Narrated Salim's father:

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	There are some who claim that Allah created seven earths.<ref>[http://www.justread.20m.com/scientific%20truth.htm Layers of the Earth] - Justread.20m.com</ref> This is in fact the correct understanding of verse 65:12 supported by various [[hadith]]s and [[tafsir]] commentaries. However, we only know of one, our own. To get around this problem, apologists such as Maurice Bucaille claim scientists have just not discovered the other six yet.<ref>Dr. Maurice Bucaille - [http://web.archive.org/web/20030514172921/http://www.masmn.org/Books/Maurice_Bucaille/The_Bible_The_Quran_and_Science/043.htm The Bible, The Qur'an and Science/ Confrontation with the data in the Qur'an concerning the creation]</ref>		There are some who claim that Allah created seven earths.<ref>[http://www.justread.20m.com/scientific%20truth.htm Layers of the Earth] - Justread.20m.com</ref> This is in fact the correct understanding of verse 65:12 supported by various [[hadith]]s and [[tafsir]] commentaries. However, we only know of one, our own. To get around this problem, apologists such as Maurice Bucaille claim scientists have just not discovered the other six yet.<ref>Dr. Maurice Bucaille - [http://web.archive.org/web/20030514172921/http://www.masmn.org/Books/Maurice_Bucaille/The_Bible_The_Quran_and_Science/043.htm The Bible, The Qur'an and Science/ Confrontation with the data in the Qur'an concerning the creation]</ref>

	To further complicate matters for apologists, Islamic sources state the seven earths being referred to in verse 65:12 are flat islands, one under the other:		To further complicate matters for apologists, Islamic sources state the seven earths being referred to in verse 65:12 are flat islands, one under the other. For example:

	{{Quote\|1=[{{Reference archive\|1=http://www.oocities.org/tirmidhihadith/page8.html\|2=2014-01-07}} Al Tirmidhi 5735]\|2=Narrated AbuHurayrah:		{{Quote\|1=[{{Reference archive\|1=http://www.oocities.org/tirmidhihadith/page8.html\|2=2014-01-07}} Al Tirmidhi 5735]\|2=Narrated AbuHurayrah:

Lightyears at 02:18, 7 December 2025

2025-12-07T02:18:14Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:18, 7 December 2025
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	Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.}}		Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.}}

	The tradition of the seven earths is also found in hadith collections of Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and Tirmidhi:		The tradition of the seven earths is also found in hadith collections of Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and Tirmidhi.
	{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|\|\|3196\|darussalam}}\|Narrated Salim's father:		{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|\|\|3196\|darussalam}}\|Narrated Salim's father:

	The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Any person who takes a piece of land unjustly will sink down the seven earths on the Day of Resurrection."}}{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|\|\|3195\|darussalam}}\|حَدَّثَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، أَخْبَرَنَا ابْنُ عُلَيَّةَ، عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْمُبَارَكِ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ أَبِي كَثِيرٍ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ بْنِ الْحَارِثِ، عَنْ أَبِي سَلَمَةَ بْنِ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، كَانَتْ بَيْنَهُ وَبَيْنَ أُنَاسٍ خُصُومَةٌ فِي أَرْضٍ، فَدَخَلَ عَلَى عَائِشَةَ فَذَكَرَ لَهَا ذَلِكَ، فَقَالَتْ يَا أَبَا سَلَمَةَ اجْتَنِبِ الأَرْضَ، فَإِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏		The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Any person who takes a piece of land unjustly will sink down the seven earths on the Day of Resurrection."}}

			In the next hadith, طوّقه means put on a neck-ring<ref>طوق tawwaqa [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000179.pdf Lane's Lexicon] p. 1894</ref> and hence these are flat, not spherical layers.
			{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|\|\|3195\|darussalam}}\|حَدَّثَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، أَخْبَرَنَا ابْنُ عُلَيَّةَ، عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْمُبَارَكِ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ أَبِي كَثِيرٍ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ بْنِ الْحَارِثِ، عَنْ أَبِي سَلَمَةَ بْنِ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، كَانَتْ بَيْنَهُ وَبَيْنَ أُنَاسٍ خُصُومَةٌ فِي أَرْضٍ، فَدَخَلَ عَلَى عَائِشَةَ فَذَكَرَ لَهَا ذَلِكَ، فَقَالَتْ يَا أَبَا سَلَمَةَ اجْتَنِبِ الأَرْضَ، فَإِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏

	"‏ مَنْ ظَلَمَ قِيدَ شِبْرٍ طُوِّقَهُ مِنْ سَبْعِ أَرَضِينَ ‏"		"‏ مَنْ ظَلَمَ قِيدَ شِبْرٍ طُوِّقَهُ مِنْ سَبْعِ أَرَضِينَ ‏"
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	There are some who claim that Allah created seven earths.<ref>[http://www.justread.20m.com/scientific%20truth.htm Layers of the Earth] - Justread.20m.com</ref> This is in fact the correct understanding of verse 65:12 supported by various [[hadith]]s and [[tafsir]] commentaries. However, we only know of one, our own. To get around this problem, apologists such as Maurice Bucaille claim scientists have just not discovered the other six yet.<ref>Dr. Maurice Bucaille - [http://web.archive.org/web/20030514172921/http://www.masmn.org/Books/Maurice_Bucaille/The_Bible_The_Quran_and_Science/043.htm The Bible, The Qur'an and Science/ Confrontation with the data in the Qur'an concerning the creation]</ref>		There are some who claim that Allah created seven earths.<ref>[http://www.justread.20m.com/scientific%20truth.htm Layers of the Earth] - Justread.20m.com</ref> This is in fact the correct understanding of verse 65:12 supported by various [[hadith]]s and [[tafsir]] commentaries. However, we only know of one, our own. To get around this problem, apologists such as Maurice Bucaille claim scientists have just not discovered the other six yet.<ref>Dr. Maurice Bucaille - [http://web.archive.org/web/20030514172921/http://www.masmn.org/Books/Maurice_Bucaille/The_Bible_The_Quran_and_Science/043.htm The Bible, The Qur'an and Science/ Confrontation with the data in the Qur'an concerning the creation]</ref>

	To further complicate matters for apologists, Islamic sources state the seven earths being referred to in verse 65:12 are flat islands, one under the other~~. For example various narrations describe seven stacked flat earths (not spherical layers, طوّقه means put on a neck-ring<ref>طوق tawwaqa [http~~:~~//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000179.pdf Lane's Lexicon] p. 1894</ref>):~~		To further complicate matters for apologists, Islamic sources state the seven earths being referred to in verse 65:12 are flat islands, one under the other:

	~~{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|\|\|2454\|darussalam}}\|Narrated Salim's father (i.e. `Abdullah):~~

	~~The Prophet said, "Whoever takes a piece of the land of others unjustly, he will sink down the seven earths on the Day of Resurrection."}}~~

	~~{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|\|\|2452\|darussalam}}\|Narrated Sa`id bin Zaid:~~

	~~Allah's Messenger said, "Whoever usurps the land of somebody unjustly, '''his neck will be encircled with it''' down the seven earths (on the Day of Resurrection). "~~
	}}

	~~{{Quote\|{{Muslim\|\|1610d\|reference}}\|Sa'id b. Zaid reported:~~

	~~I heard Allah's Apostle say: He who took a span of earth wrongly '''would be made to wear around his neck''' seven earths on the Day of Resurrection.}}~~


	{{Quote\|1=[{{Reference archive\|1=http://www.oocities.org/tirmidhihadith/page8.html\|2=2014-01-07}} Al Tirmidhi 5735]\|2=Narrated AbuHurayrah:		{{Quote\|1=[{{Reference archive\|1=http://www.oocities.org/tirmidhihadith/page8.html\|2=2014-01-07}} Al Tirmidhi 5735]\|2=Narrated AbuHurayrah:

Lightyears: /* Seven Earths */

2025-12-07T02:08:47Z

Seven Earths

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 There are some who claim that Allah created seven earths.<ref>[http://www.justread.20m.com/scientific%20truth.htm Layers of the Earth] - Justread.20m.com</ref> This is in fact the correct understanding of verse 65:12 supported by various [[hadith]]s and [[tafsir]] commentaries. However, we only know of one, our own. To get around this problem, apologists such as Maurice Bucaille claim scientists have just not discovered the other six yet.<ref>Dr. Maurice Bucaille - [http://web.archive.org/web/20030514172921/http://www.masmn.org/Books/Maurice_Bucaille/The_Bible_The_Quran_and_Science/043.htm The Bible, The Qur'an and Science/ Confrontation with the data in the Qur'an concerning the creation]</ref>
-To further complicate matters for apologists, Islamic sources state the seven earths being referred to in verse 65:12 are flat islands, one under the other. For example:{{Quote|1=[{{Reference archive|1=http://www.oocities.org/tirmidhihadith/page8.html|2=2014-01-07}} Al Tirmidhi 5735]|2=Narrated AbuHurayrah:
+To further complicate matters for apologists, Islamic sources state the seven earths being referred to in verse 65:12 are flat islands, one under the other. For example various narrations describe seven stacked flat earths (not spherical layers, طوّقه means put on a neck-ring<ref>طوق tawwaqa [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000179.pdf Lane's Lexicon] p. 1894</ref>):
 While Allah's Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions were sitting clouds came over them and Allah's Prophet (peace be upon him) asked, "Do you know what these are?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger knew best, he said, "These are the clouds (anan), these are the water-carriers of the Earth, which Allah drives to people who do not thank Him or call upon him." He then asked, "Do you know what is above you?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "It is the firmament, a ceiling which is guarded and waves which are kept back." He then asked, "Do you know what is between you and it?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "Between you and it are five hundred years." He then asked, "Do you knew what is above that?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) best he said, "Two heavens with a distance of five hundred years between them." He went on speaking like that till he counted seven heavens, the distance between each pair being like between Heaven and Earth. He then asked, "Do you know what is above that?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "Above that is the Throne, and the distance between it and the (seventh) heaven is the same as that between each pair of heavens." He then asked, '''"Do you know what is below you?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "It is the earth." He then asked, "Do you know what is under that?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "Under it there is another Earth with a journey of five hundred years between them," and so on till he had counted seven earths with a journey of five hundred years between each pair. He then said, "By Him in Whose hand Muhammad's soul is, if you were to drop a rope to the lowest earth it would not pass out of Allah's knowledge."''' He then recited, "He is the First and the Last, the Outward and the Inward, and He is omniscient." (Tirmidhi commented that Allah's Messenger's recitation of the verse indicates that it would go down within Allah's knowledge, power and authority, for Allah's knowledge, power and authority are everywhere, while He is on the Throne, as He described Himself in His Book.)}}

Lightyears: Automated script replacing USC-MSA hadith numbering system for Bukhari, Muslim, and Abu Dawud

2025-11-15T00:17:22Z

Automated script replacing USC-MSA hadith numbering system for Bukhari, Muslim, and Abu Dawud

Lightyears: /* Seven LayersV */

2025-11-12T19:06:06Z

Seven LayersV

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:06, 12 November 2025
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	==Analysis==		==Analysis==

	===Seven ~~LayersV~~===		===Seven Layers===

	Verse 37:6 says that the stars are in the lowest heaven, and thus the seven heavens cannot mean the Earth's atmosphere.		Verse 37:6 says that the stars are in the lowest heaven, and thus the seven heavens cannot mean the Earth's atmosphere.
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	There is only one atmosphere, but one can classify this one atmosphere by different criteria.		There is only one atmosphere, but one can classify this one atmosphere by different criteria.
	~~Partioning~~ by temperature, the result is 5 layers. By aerodynamical state 4 layers, by radiophysical state 3 layers and by chemical processes 2 layers. There is no classification into 7 layers.		Partitioning by temperature, the result is 5 layers. By aerodynamical state 4 layers, by radiophysical state 3 layers and by chemical processes 2 layers. There is no classification into 7 layers.

	To reach the needed "seven layers" different criteria are being mixed to reach the desired number 7. For example, Earth's atmosphere is commonly divided into five main layers based on temperature. From highest to lowest, these layers are:		To reach the needed "seven layers" different criteria are being mixed to reach the desired number 7. For example, Earth's atmosphere is commonly divided into five main layers based on temperature. From highest to lowest, these layers are:

Asmith: /* Seven Layers of the Earth */

2025-11-12T02:58:52Z

Seven Layers of the Earth

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:58, 12 November 2025
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	From the evidence above, one can see ~~the~~ apologetic ~~deceit~~ because they double-count the lithosphere/asthenosphere while they also ~~count~~ the crust and upper mantle. ~~Note that this~~ is ~~dishonest because~~ these are alternative classifications.<ref>''[https://www.snexplores.org/article/explainer-earth-layer-layer#:~:text=Starting%20at%20the%20center%2C%20Earth,12%20kilometers%20(7.6%20miles). Explainer: Earth — layer by layer.]'' Earth. Science News Explores. Beth Geiger. 2019.</ref> One cannot ~~honestly~~ count all lithosphere, asthenosphere, crust, and upper mantle together as one would be recounting the same rocks.		From the evidence above, one can see apologetic sleight of hand, because they double-count the lithosphere/asthenosphere while they also counting the crust and upper mantle. This is not consistent since these are alternative classifications.<ref>''[https://www.snexplores.org/article/explainer-earth-layer-layer#:~:text=Starting%20at%20the%20center%2C%20Earth,12%20kilometers%20(7.6%20miles). Explainer: Earth — layer by layer.]'' Earth. Science News Explores. Beth Geiger. 2019.</ref> One cannot count all lithosphere, asthenosphere, crust, and upper mantle together as one would be recounting the same rocks.

	~~Recently~~ new scientific hypotheses proposed by J. Marvin Herndon and Prof Xiaodong Song suggest the inner core may be further subdivided into four layers; the inner core, the innermost core, a sub-shell of fission material and decay products, and a subcore of uranium and plutonium forming the georeactor.<ref>D. F. Hollenbach, and J. M. Herndon - [http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/98/20/11085 Deep-Earth reactor: Nuclear fission, helium, and the geomagnetic field] - PNAS 2001 vol. 98 no. 20 pp 11085-11090</ref> If this new theory is accepted the number of layers of the earth will rise from five to eight.		A relatively new scientific hypotheses proposed by J. Marvin Herndon and Prof Xiaodong Song suggest the inner core may be further subdivided into four layers; the inner core, the innermost core, a sub-shell of fission material and decay products, and a subcore of uranium and plutonium forming the georeactor.<ref>D. F. Hollenbach, and J. M. Herndon - [http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/98/20/11085 Deep-Earth reactor: Nuclear fission, helium, and the geomagnetic field] - PNAS 2001 vol. 98 no. 20 pp 11085-11090</ref> If this new theory is accepted the number of layers of the earth will rise from five to eight.

	It should also be noted here that there is overlap between the chemical and physical designations of layers, specifically at the core-mantle boundary,<ref>''An Introduction to Geology'' (Johnson, Affolter, Inkenbrandt, and Mosher) ''[https://geo.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Geology/Book%3A_An_Introduction_to_Geology_(Johnson_Affolter_Inkenbrandt_and_Mosher)/02%3A_Plate_Tectonics/2.02%3A_Layers_of_the_Earth 2.2: Layers of the Earth]. Physical Layers.'' Salt Lake Community College via OpenGeology. Libretexts: Geosciences.</ref> making it more difficult to fully class them as separate distinct 'earths'.		It should also be noted here that there is overlap between the chemical and physical designations of layers, specifically at the core-mantle boundary,<ref>''An Introduction to Geology'' (Johnson, Affolter, Inkenbrandt, and Mosher) ''[https://geo.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Geology/Book%3A_An_Introduction_to_Geology_(Johnson_Affolter_Inkenbrandt_and_Mosher)/02%3A_Plate_Tectonics/2.02%3A_Layers_of_the_Earth 2.2: Layers of the Earth]. Physical Layers.'' Salt Lake Community College via OpenGeology. Libretexts: Geosciences.</ref> making it more difficult to fully class them as separate distinct 'earths'.

	Apologists sometimes depict the hydrosphere in their diagrams but are themselves inconsistent in counting/not counting it as one of their seven layers. Even on the crust, there are many layers of rocks one below the other.<ref>For example, here are the illustrated layers of [https://www.nps.gov/zion/learn/nature/images/ZionStratColumn_small_1.jpg Zion National Park], [http://www.grandcanyonguide.net/sites/default/files/geologic-cross-section-photo_1000.png Grand Canyon], [https://www.steinmann.uni-bonn.de/arbeitsgruppen/strukturgeologie/lehre/wissen-gratis/Abb.315ProfileNKA.jpg the Alps] and [http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39076000/gif/_39076834_everest_composition_inf416.gif Himalayas].</ref> Their exact number varies from place to place but they can easily number in dozens, and the diversity of these rock layers forms the very basis of geology. ~~Why are apologists ignoring~~ these layers ( e.g. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratum strata]) that could easily mean the Earth could be classified as having many more ~~with a natural creation basis of classification?~~		Apologists sometimes depict the hydrosphere in their diagrams but are themselves inconsistent in counting/not counting it as one of their seven layers. Even on the crust, there are many layers of rocks one below the other.<ref>For example, here are the illustrated layers of [https://www.nps.gov/zion/learn/nature/images/ZionStratColumn_small_1.jpg Zion National Park], [http://www.grandcanyonguide.net/sites/default/files/geologic-cross-section-photo_1000.png Grand Canyon], [https://www.steinmann.uni-bonn.de/arbeitsgruppen/strukturgeologie/lehre/wissen-gratis/Abb.315ProfileNKA.jpg the Alps] and [http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39076000/gif/_39076834_everest_composition_inf416.gif Himalayas].</ref> Their exact number varies from place to place but they can easily number in dozens, and the diversity of these rock layers forms the very basis of geology. Ignoring these layers ( e.g. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratum strata]) is untenable, as that could easily mean the Earth could be classified as having many more layers than so far discussed.

	===Seven Continents of the Earth===		===Seven Continents of the Earth===

	~~The same apologists try to hedge their bets by claiming it~~ is either seven layers or seven continents.		Another common apologetic claim about these verses and narrations is that they are either seven layers or seven continents.

	{{Quote\|\|OR they could refer to the "7 Continents" (in the context that "al-ard" means ground)<BR>1. North America<BR>2. South America<BR>3. Australia<BR>4. Asia<BR>5. Africa<BR>6. Antarctica<BR>7. Europe}}		{{Quote\|\|OR they could refer to the "7 Continents" (in the context that "al-ard" means ground)<BR>1. North America<BR>2. South America<BR>3. Australia<BR>4. Asia<BR>5. Africa<BR>6. Antarctica<BR>7. Europe}}

	The former explanation (seven layers) would seem more accurate as all translations refer to "earth" and not ground. Nevertheless, although the number of continents is traditionally considered seven, some geographers and scientists think there are only six as Europe and Asia are technically a single land mass (i.e. Eurasia) and on the same tectonic plate.<ref>Matt Rosenberg - [http://geography.about.com/library/misc/blcont.htm Continents] - About.com</ref> ~~Therefore, the traditional number~~ of ~~seven continents~~ is ~~more a cultural bias~~ than ~~an actual geographical/geological fact stemmed in nature~~.		The former explanation (seven layers) would seem more accurate as all translations refer to "earth" and not ground. Nevertheless, although the number of continents is traditionally considered seven, some geographers and scientists think there are only six as Europe and Asia are technically a single land mass (i.e. Eurasia) and on the same tectonic plate.<ref>Matt Rosenberg - [http://geography.about.com/library/misc/blcont.htm Continents] - About.com</ref> The classification of "continent" is thus to some extent culturally rather than scientifically defined.

	===Seven Earths===		===Seven Earths===

Asmith: /* Seven Layers of Earth's Atmosphere */

2025-11-12T02:54:49Z

Seven Layers of Earth's Atmosphere

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:54, 12 November 2025
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	==Analysis==		==Analysis==

	===Seven ~~Layers of Earth's Atmosphere~~===		===Seven LayersV===

	~~Before beginning, notice that verse~~ 37:6 says that the stars are in the lowest heaven, and thus the seven heavens cannot mean the Earth's atmosphere.		Verse 37:6 says that the stars are in the lowest heaven, and thus the seven heavens cannot mean the Earth's atmosphere.

	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|37\|6}}\| Surely We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment, the stars}}		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|37\|6}}\| Surely We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment, the stars}}


	Nevertheless, ~~let's look again at~~ the ~~apologetic claim~~:		Nevertheless, the apologist above claims:

	{{Quote\|\|		{{Quote\|\|
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	1. troposphere<BR>2. stratosphere<BR>3. ozone layer<BR>4. mesosphere<BR>5. thermosphere<BR>6. ionosphere<BR>7. exosphere}}		1. troposphere<BR>2. stratosphere<BR>3. ozone layer<BR>4. mesosphere<BR>5. thermosphere<BR>6. ionosphere<BR>7. exosphere}}

	There is only one atmosphere, but ~~you~~ can classify this one atmosphere by different criteria.		There is only one atmosphere, but one can classify this one atmosphere by different criteria.
	~~If you partition it~~ by temperature, ~~you get~~ 5 layers. By aerodynamical state 4 layers, by radiophysical state 3 layers and by chemical processes 2 layers. There is no classification into 7 layers.		Partioning by temperature, the result is 5 layers. By aerodynamical state 4 layers, by radiophysical state 3 layers and by chemical processes 2 layers. There is no classification into 7 layers.

	To reach the needed "seven layers" different criteria are being mixed to reach the desired number 7. For example, Earth's atmosphere is commonly divided into five main layers based on temperature. From highest to lowest, these layers are:		To reach the needed "seven layers" different criteria are being mixed to reach the desired number 7. For example, Earth's atmosphere is commonly divided into five main layers based on temperature. From highest to lowest, these layers are:

Asmith: /* Qur'an and Sunnah */

2025-11-12T02:52:07Z

Qur'an and Sunnah

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	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|65\|12}}\|ٱللَّهُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَٰوَٰتٍ وَمِنَ ٱلْأَرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ ٱلْأَمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِتَعْلَمُوٓا۟ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَأَنَّ ٱللَّهَ قَدْ أَحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَىْءٍ عِلْمًۢا		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|65\|12}}\|ٱللَّهُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَٰوَٰتٍ وَمِنَ ٱلْأَرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ ٱلْأَمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِتَعْلَمُوٓا۟ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَىْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَأَنَّ ٱللَّهَ قَدْ أَحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَىْءٍ عِلْمًۢا


	Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.}}		Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.}}

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	The tradition of the seven earths is also found in hadith collections of Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and Tirmidhi:		The tradition of the seven earths is also found in hadith collections of Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and Tirmidhi:
	{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|4\|54\|~~418~~}}\|Narrated Salim's father:		{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|\|\|3196\|darussalam}}\|Narrated Salim's father:

	The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Any person who takes a piece of land unjustly will sink down the seven earths on the Day of Resurrection."}}{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|4\|54\|~~417~~}}\|حَدَّثَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، أَخْبَرَنَا ابْنُ عُلَيَّةَ، عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْمُبَارَكِ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ أَبِي كَثِيرٍ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ بْنِ الْحَارِثِ، عَنْ أَبِي سَلَمَةَ بْنِ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، كَانَتْ بَيْنَهُ وَبَيْنَ أُنَاسٍ خُصُومَةٌ فِي أَرْضٍ، فَدَخَلَ عَلَى عَائِشَةَ فَذَكَرَ لَهَا ذَلِكَ، فَقَالَتْ يَا أَبَا سَلَمَةَ اجْتَنِبِ الأَرْضَ، فَإِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏		The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Any person who takes a piece of land unjustly will sink down the seven earths on the Day of Resurrection."}}{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|\|\|3195\|darussalam}}\|حَدَّثَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، أَخْبَرَنَا ابْنُ عُلَيَّةَ، عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْمُبَارَكِ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ أَبِي كَثِيرٍ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ بْنِ الْحَارِثِ، عَنْ أَبِي سَلَمَةَ بْنِ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ، كَانَتْ بَيْنَهُ وَبَيْنَ أُنَاسٍ خُصُومَةٌ فِي أَرْضٍ، فَدَخَلَ عَلَى عَائِشَةَ فَذَكَرَ لَهَا ذَلِكَ، فَقَالَتْ يَا أَبَا سَلَمَةَ اجْتَنِبِ الأَرْضَ، فَإِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏

	"‏ مَنْ ظَلَمَ قِيدَ شِبْرٍ طُوِّقَهُ مِنْ سَبْعِ أَرَضِينَ ‏"		"‏ مَنْ ظَلَمَ قِيدَ شِبْرٍ طُوِّقَهُ مِنْ سَبْعِ أَرَضِينَ ‏"
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	Narrated Muhammad bin Ibrahim bin Al-Harith:		Narrated Muhammad bin Ibrahim bin Al-Harith:

	from Abu Salama bin `Abdur-Rahman who had a dispute with some people on a piece of land, and so he went to `Aisha and told her about it. She said, "O Abu Salama, avoid the land, for Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, 'Any person who takes even a span of land unjustly, his neck shall be encircled with it down seven earths.' "}}Although the number is not explicitly given, the plural of word for "earth", "أرض" is used here, أرضين meaning "earths". This is used again in conjunction with the plural of the word سماء "sky" or "heavens", سموات, meaning "heavens":{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|6\|60\|~~335~~}}\| حَدَّثَنَا آدَمُ، حَدَّثَنَا شَيْبَانُ، عَنْ مَنْصُورٍ، عَنْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، عَنْ عَبِيدَةَ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ قَالَ جَاءَ حَبْرٌ مِنَ الأَحْبَارِ إِلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَالَ يَا مُحَمَّدُ، إِنَّا نَجِدُ أَنَّ اللَّهَ يَجْعَلُ السَّمَوَاتِ عَلَى إِصْبَعٍ وَالأَرَضِينَ عَلَى إِصْبَعٍ، وَالشَّجَرَ عَلَى إِصْبَعٍ، وَالْمَاءَ وَالثَّرَى عَلَى إِصْبَعٍ، وَسَائِرَ الْخَلاَئِقِ عَلَى إِصْبَعٍ، فَيَقُولُ أَنَا الْمَلِكُ‏.‏ فَضَحِكَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم حَتَّى بَدَتْ نَوَاجِذُهُ تَصْدِيقًا لِقَوْلِ الْحَبْرِ ثُمَّ قَرَأَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏{‏وَمَا قَدَرُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ قَدْرِهِ وَالأَرْضُ جَمِيعًا قَبْضَتُهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَالسَّمَوَاتُ مَطْوِيَّاتٌ بِيَمِينِهِ سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَى عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ‏}‏‏		from Abu Salama bin `Abdur-Rahman who had a dispute with some people on a piece of land, and so he went to `Aisha and told her about it. She said, "O Abu Salama, avoid the land, for Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, 'Any person who takes even a span of land unjustly, his neck shall be encircled with it down seven earths.' "}}Although the number is not explicitly given, the plural of word for "earth", "أرض" is used here, أرضين meaning "earths". This is used again in conjunction with the plural of the word سماء "sky" or "heavens", سموات, meaning "heavens":{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|\|\|4811\|darussalam}}\| حَدَّثَنَا آدَمُ، حَدَّثَنَا شَيْبَانُ، عَنْ مَنْصُورٍ، عَنْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، عَنْ عَبِيدَةَ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ قَالَ جَاءَ حَبْرٌ مِنَ الأَحْبَارِ إِلَى رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَالَ يَا مُحَمَّدُ، إِنَّا نَجِدُ أَنَّ اللَّهَ يَجْعَلُ السَّمَوَاتِ عَلَى إِصْبَعٍ وَالأَرَضِينَ عَلَى إِصْبَعٍ، وَالشَّجَرَ عَلَى إِصْبَعٍ، وَالْمَاءَ وَالثَّرَى عَلَى إِصْبَعٍ، وَسَائِرَ الْخَلاَئِقِ عَلَى إِصْبَعٍ، فَيَقُولُ أَنَا الْمَلِكُ‏.‏ فَضَحِكَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم حَتَّى بَدَتْ نَوَاجِذُهُ تَصْدِيقًا لِقَوْلِ الْحَبْرِ ثُمَّ قَرَأَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏{‏وَمَا قَدَرُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ قَدْرِهِ وَالأَرْضُ جَمِيعًا قَبْضَتُهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَالسَّمَوَاتُ مَطْوِيَّاتٌ بِيَمِينِهِ سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَى عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ‏}‏‏


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	A (Jewish) Rabbi came to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and he said, "O Muhammad! We learn that Allah will put all the heavens on one finger, and the earths on one finger, and the trees on one finger, and the water and the dust on one finger, and all the other created beings on one finger. Then He will say, 'I am the King.' Thereupon the Prophet (ﷺ) smiled so that his pre-molar teeth became visible, and that was the confirmation of the Rabbi. Then Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) recited: 'No just estimate have they made of Allah such as due to Him.' (Qur'an 39.67)}}		A (Jewish) Rabbi came to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and he said, "O Muhammad! We learn that Allah will put all the heavens on one finger, and the earths on one finger, and the trees on one finger, and the water and the dust on one finger, and all the other created beings on one finger. Then He will say, 'I am the King.' Thereupon the Prophet (ﷺ) smiled so that his pre-molar teeth became visible, and that was the confirmation of the Rabbi. Then Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) recited: 'No just estimate have they made of Allah such as due to Him.' (Qur'an 39.67)}}

	{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|6\|60\|~~335~~}}\|Muhammad b. Ibrahim said that Abu Salama reported to him that there was between him and his people dispute over a piece of land, and he came to 'A'isha and mentioned that to her, whereupon she said:		{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|\|\|4811\|darussalam}}\|Muhammad b. Ibrahim said that Abu Salama reported to him that there was between him and his people dispute over a piece of land, and he came to 'A'isha and mentioned that to her, whereupon she said:

	Abu Salama, abstain from getting this land, for Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: He who usurps even a span of land would be made to wear around his neck seven earths.}}{{Quote\|{{cite web\| url=https://sunnah.com/mishkat:2960 \| title=Mishkat al-Masabih 2960. In-book reference: Book 11, Hadith 195}}\|He told of hearing God’s Messenger say, “If anyone wrongly takes a span of land God who is great and glorious will make him<b> dig it till he gets to the end of seven earths,</b> and then he will have it tied round his neck till the day of resurrection until men are judged.”		Abu Salama, abstain from getting this land, for Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: He who usurps even a span of land would be made to wear around his neck seven earths.}}{{Quote\|{{cite web\| url=https://sunnah.com/mishkat:2960 \| title=Mishkat al-Masabih 2960. In-book reference: Book 11, Hadith 195}}\|He told of hearing God’s Messenger say, “If anyone wrongly takes a span of land God who is great and glorious will make him<b> dig it till he gets to the end of seven earths,</b> and then he will have it tied round his neck till the day of resurrection until men are judged.”
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	There is nothing between the Earth and the rest of the universe, so substituting the 'heavens' with the modern definition of the universe does not make sense here. Yet once again matches the ancient view of the heavens as 'firmaments' in the sky with space between them.		There is nothing between the Earth and the rest of the universe, so substituting the 'heavens' with the modern definition of the universe does not make sense here. Yet once again matches the ancient view of the heavens as 'firmaments' in the sky with space between them.

	This idea is also backed up in many hadith ''(see: [[Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Creation]]),'' such as {{Bukhari\|9\|93\|~~608~~}}, describing Muhammad's alleged night journey through the heavens, and {{Bukhari\|9\|93\|~~519~~}} comparing distances of degree between those in paradise to the distance between the sky (samā', i.e. Universe as apologists claim) and the Earth to show how large they are.		This idea is also backed up in many hadith ''(see: [[Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Creation]]),'' such as {{Bukhari\|\|\|7517\|darussalam}}, describing Muhammad's alleged night journey through the heavens, and {{Bukhari\|\|\|7423\|darussalam}} comparing distances of degree between those in paradise to the distance between the sky (samā', i.e. Universe as apologists claim) and the Earth to show how large they are.
	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|5\|18}}\|Say the Jews and the Christians: "We are sons of God and beloved of Him." Say: "Why does He punish you then for your sins? No: You are only mortals, of His creation." He can punish whom He pleases and pardon whom He wills, <b>for God's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and all that lies between them,</b> and everything will go back to Him.}}		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|5\|18}}\|Say the Jews and the Christians: "We are sons of God and beloved of Him." Say: "Why does He punish you then for your sins? No: You are only mortals, of His creation." He can punish whom He pleases and pardon whom He wills, <b>for God's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and all that lies between them,</b> and everything will go back to Him.}}