Talk:Scientific Errors in the Quran - Revision history

Lightyears: /* [Sticky] Instructions for editing this page */

2018-11-26T15:53:24Z

[Sticky] Instructions for editing this page

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:53, 26 November 2018
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	An error should be included only if it cannot be justified or explained in any way. In other words the error should be obvious. The following points should be noted:		An error should be included only if it cannot be justified or explained in any way. In other words the error should be obvious. The following points should be noted:
	* The error should not be attributable to a translation issue and must be valid for the verse in Arabic (when necessary, Arabic speakers should be consulted)		* The error should not be attributable to a translation issue and must be valid for the verse in Arabic (when necessary, Arabic speakers should be consulted)
	* The error should be shown ~~in at least 2 translations (Shakir~~, Yusuf or ~~Pickthall)~~		* The error should be shown using the translation of Pickthall, Yusuf Ali, Shakir or Sahih International.
	* These are the only translations that can be used		* Use the translation which best represents the relevant Arabic words.
	* Use the translation which is the ~~most easy to understand~~.
	* The error is obvious and cannot be attributed to "figure of speech". An example is "We will blow up the sky" (this is just an example and may not be a real verse). This should not be listed as an error. A counter-claim may be that they may have been talking about the sun expanding and engulfing the Earth (this will eventually happen). Errors that can be explained by apologists in this way should not be listed.		* The error is obvious and cannot be attributed to "figure of speech". An example is "We will blow up the sky" (this is just an example and may not be a real verse). This should not be listed as an error. A counter-claim may be that they may have been talking about the sun expanding and engulfing the Earth (this will eventually happen). Errors that can be explained by apologists in this way should not be listed.
	* If there is a plausible way that the verse could be interpreted that doesn't indicate an error (from an Islamic worldview where Allah exists), then it is not a demonstrable error unless evidence against the alternative explanation is given.		* If there is a plausible way that the verse could be interpreted that doesn't indicate an error (from an Islamic worldview where Allah exists), then it is not a demonstrable error unless evidence against the alternative explanation is given.

AAA: /* Tasks */

2017-09-07T20:38:45Z

Tasks

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:38, 7 September 2017
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	==Tasks==		==Tasks==
	See [[WikiIslam:Tasks/Scientific Errors in the Qur'an]] for tasks for this page.		See [[WikiIslam:Tasks/Scientific Errors in the Qur'an]] for tasks for this page.
	* Investigate ~~"Heavy clouds"~~ and add if suitable: [http://rationalwiki.org/~~wiki~~/Qur%27anic_scientific_foreknowledge~~#Climatology~~]~~. Also add any other suitable errors on this page~~.		* Investigate and add if suitable: [http://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Qur%27anic_scientific_foreknowledge&oldid=1453448].
	* Check for additions: http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/Erroneous-Science-and-Contradictions-in-Quran.htm		* Check for additions: http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/Erroneous-Science-and-Contradictions-in-Quran.htm

Lightyears: /* Removed errors / candidates for removal */ stars are lower than the moon

2016-10-04T01:37:15Z

Removed errors / candidates for removal: stars are lower than the moon

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:37, 4 October 2016
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	===Bees eat fruit===		===Bees eat fruit===
	Removed because it is incorrect and easily debunked as an error. Bees will in fact eat from ripe fruits (thamarati ٱلثَّمَرَٰتِ - fruits from trees), particularly if their skins have a break in them, such as dates and grapes, as well as eating pollen. Possibly they won't eat from ''all'' types of fruit, but I don't know where that could be proven if true. [[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 08:17, 20 September 2016 (EDT)		Removed because it is incorrect and easily debunked as an error. Bees will in fact eat from ripe fruits (thamarati ٱلثَّمَرَٰتِ - fruits from trees), particularly if their skins have a break in them, such as dates and grapes, as well as eating pollen. Possibly they won't eat from ''all'' types of fruit, but I don't know where that could be proven if true. [[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 08:17, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

			===Stars are lower than the moon===
			This one was removed ages ago because 'in their midst' in 71:16 is feehinna which literally means simply, 'in them'. It doesn't indicate which of the seven heavens the moon is in, whether it be in the lowest heaven like the stars or not.[[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 21:37, 3 October 2016 (EDT)

	==Removed the Under Review flag==		==Removed the Under Review flag==

Lightyears: /* Removed errors / candidates for removal */

2016-09-20T12:17:56Z

Removed errors / candidates for removal

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:17, 20 September 2016
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	===Space Flight is Impossible===		===Space Flight is Impossible===
	Deleted as 55:33 doesn't say it's impossible. Rather, if spaceflight even falls into this category, it says that it can only happen with Allah's authority.[[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 07:58, 20 September 2016 (EDT)		Deleted as 55:33 doesn't say it's impossible. Rather, if spaceflight even falls into this category, it says that it can only happen with Allah's authority.[[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 07:58, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

			===Bees eat fruit===
			Removed because it is incorrect and easily debunked as an error. Bees will in fact eat from ripe fruits (thamarati ٱلثَّمَرَٰتِ - fruits from trees), particularly if their skins have a break in them, such as dates and grapes, as well as eating pollen. Possibly they won't eat from ''all'' types of fruit, but I don't know where that could be proven if true. [[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 08:17, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

	==Removed the Under Review flag==		==Removed the Under Review flag==

Lightyears: New section: Removed Under Review flag

2016-09-20T11:58:39Z

New section: Removed Under Review flag

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:58, 20 September 2016
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	===classification of creatures===		===classification of creatures===
	Removed as it is obviously not supposed to be an exhaustive list (creeping on bellies, some with 2, some with 4 legs). It misses out 6 legged things which would include the obvious like ants too, not just millipedes.		Removed as it is obviously not supposed to be an exhaustive list (creeping on bellies, some with 2, some with 4 legs). It misses out 6 legged things which would include the obvious like ants too, not just millipedes.[[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 07:58, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

	===Humans created in paradise and then brought to earth===		===Humans created in paradise and then brought to earth===
	Removed as this is too weak, and we already have the stuff about Adam specially created from clay. 2:35-26 just refers to the garden and that there is in the earth an abode for them and provision for a time. It probably does mean the garden is not on earth, but too unclear. Ibn Kathir says the majority of scholars assert that the garden was in heaven, but I don't think that's enough as the Qur'an itself is too vague here.		Removed as this is too weak, and we already have the stuff about Adam specially created from clay. 2:35-26 just refers to the garden and that there is in the earth an abode for them and provision for a time. It probably does mean the garden is not on earth, but too unclear. Ibn Kathir says the majority of scholars assert that the garden was in heaven, but I don't think that's enough as the Qur'an itself is too vague here.[[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 07:58, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

	===Space Flight is Impossible===		===Space Flight is Impossible===
	Deleted as 55:33 doesn't say it's impossible. Rather, if spaceflight even falls into this category, it says that it can only happen with Allah's authority.		Deleted as 55:33 doesn't say it's impossible. Rather, if spaceflight even falls into this category, it says that it can only happen with Allah's authority.[[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 07:58, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

			==Removed the Under Review flag==
			I have now removed the Under Review flag. I've gone through the whole page, making lots of corrections, removals and improvements (see also the discussion tab). Always room for improvement, and future changes might require the flag to be reapplied, but I think it's a good enough standard currently to be without the review flag.[[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 07:58, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

	== Adding hadith on shooting stars ==		== Adding hadith on shooting stars ==

Lightyears: /* Removed errors / candidates for removal */

2016-09-20T11:51:16Z

Removed errors / candidates for removal

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:51, 20 September 2016
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	===Humans created in paradise and then brought to earth===		===Humans created in paradise and then brought to earth===
	Removed as this is too weak, and we already have the stuff about Adam specially created from clay. 2:35-26 just refers to the garden and that there is in the earth an abode for them and provision for a time. It probably does mean the garden is not on earth, but too unclear. Ibn Kathir says the majority of scholars assert that the garden was in heaven, but I don't think that's enough as the Qur'an itself is too vague here.		Removed as this is too weak, and we already have the stuff about Adam specially created from clay. 2:35-26 just refers to the garden and that there is in the earth an abode for them and provision for a time. It probably does mean the garden is not on earth, but too unclear. Ibn Kathir says the majority of scholars assert that the garden was in heaven, but I don't think that's enough as the Qur'an itself is too vague here.

			===Space Flight is Impossible===
			Deleted as 55:33 doesn't say it's impossible. Rather, if spaceflight even falls into this category, it says that it can only happen with Allah's authority.

	== Adding hadith on shooting stars ==		== Adding hadith on shooting stars ==

Lightyears: /* Removed errors / candidates for removal */

2016-09-20T11:35:59Z

Removed errors / candidates for removal

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:35, 20 September 2016
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	===Corn has Seven Ears, Each with a Hundred Grains===		===Corn has Seven Ears, Each with a Hundred Grains===
	Verse 2.261 is obviously a parable about bountiful rewards. No-one thought grain had 7 ears. It fits with the parable of Joseph in 12.43 etc where he has a vision of 7 ears of green grain representing 7 good years. [[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 06:33, 20 September 2016 (EDT)		Verse 2.261 is obviously a parable about bountiful rewards. No-one thought grain had 7 ears. It fits with the parable of Joseph in 12.43 etc where he has a vision of 7 ears of green grain representing 7 good years. [[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 06:33, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

			===classification of creatures===
			Removed as it is obviously not supposed to be an exhaustive list (creeping on bellies, some with 2, some with 4 legs). It misses out 6 legged things which would include the obvious like ants too, not just millipedes.

			===Humans created in paradise and then brought to earth===
			Removed as this is too weak, and we already have the stuff about Adam specially created from clay. 2:35-26 just refers to the garden and that there is in the earth an abode for them and provision for a time. It probably does mean the garden is not on earth, but too unclear. Ibn Kathir says the majority of scholars assert that the garden was in heaven, but I don't think that's enough as the Qur'an itself is too vague here.

	== Adding hadith on shooting stars ==		== Adding hadith on shooting stars ==

Lightyears: /* Removed errors / candidates for removal */

2016-09-20T10:33:56Z

Removed errors / candidates for removal

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:33, 20 September 2016
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	The Arabic in this verse is somewhat ambiguous whether the day covers the night or the night covers the day. Most translators choose the former, and tafsirs take the view that it means both. Now it is still nonsense that day covers the night, but for now it needs a complete redesign if is to be added back, and may be too complex for this page. See the Counter-arguments section here [[Geocentrism and the Quran]] where 7:54 and related verses are discussed.[[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 21:48, 12 September 2016 (EDT)		The Arabic in this verse is somewhat ambiguous whether the day covers the night or the night covers the day. Most translators choose the former, and tafsirs take the view that it means both. Now it is still nonsense that day covers the night, but for now it needs a complete redesign if is to be added back, and may be too complex for this page. See the Counter-arguments section here [[Geocentrism and the Quran]] where 7:54 and related verses are discussed.[[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 21:48, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

			===Corn has Seven Ears, Each with a Hundred Grains===
			Verse 2.261 is obviously a parable about bountiful rewards. No-one thought grain had 7 ears. It fits with the parable of Joseph in 12.43 etc where he has a vision of 7 ears of green grain representing 7 good years. [[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 06:33, 20 September 2016 (EDT)

	== Adding hadith on shooting stars ==		== Adding hadith on shooting stars ==

Lightyears at 02:05, 13 September 2016

2016-09-13T02:05:52Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:05, 13 September 2016
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	For example concerning th shooting stars you should add this hadith		For example concerning th shooting stars you should add this hadith
	http://www.yanabi.com/Hadith.aspx?HadithID=139555		http://www.yanabi.com/Hadith.aspx?HadithID=139555
			:done - good idea, thanks

	== Possible Additions ==		== Possible Additions ==

Lightyears: /* Removed errors / candidates for removal */ Night is a veil

2016-09-13T01:48:13Z

Removed errors / candidates for removal: Night is a veil

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:48, 13 September 2016
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	===Sun is a flat disc===		===Sun is a flat disc===
	That arabic word in 81:1 is kuwwirat which means the sun is wrapped. Same word as 39.5 about the night wrapping the day and vice versa. It could be wrapped in anything in the Islamic worldview, or somehow wrapping itself. Can't prove this kind of thing false and it weakens the page, especially as it stands based on a particular translation using the word 'folded', so I removed it.[[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 21:10, 12 September 2016 (EDT)		That arabic word in 81:1 is kuwwirat which means the sun is wrapped. Same word as 39.5 about the night wrapping the day and vice versa. It could be wrapped in anything in the Islamic worldview, or somehow wrapping itself. Can't prove this kind of thing false and it weakens the page, especially as it stands based on a particular translation using the word 'folded', so I removed it.[[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 21:10, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

			===Night is a veil===
			This section used the Yusuf Ali translation which takes the opposite view compared to nearly all others. This is how Pickthall translates it ('cover' is the most accurate translation for the verb too):

			{{Quote\|{{Quran\|7\|54}}\|Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then mounted He the Throne. He covereth the night with the day, which is in haste to follow it}}

			The Arabic in this verse is somewhat ambiguous whether the day covers the night or the night covers the day. Most translators choose the former, and tafsirs take the view that it means both. Now it is still nonsense that day covers the night, but for now it needs a complete redesign if is to be added back, and may be too complex for this page. See the Counter-arguments section here [[Geocentrism and the Quran]] where 7:54 and related verses are discussed.[[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 21:48, 12 September 2016 (EDT)

	== Adding hadith on shooting stars ==		== Adding hadith on shooting stars ==