WikiIslam:Sandbox/EDIT THIS PART - Revision history

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2023-11-01T00:25:24Z

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Lightyears: Tidied up, added lead, added image, changed from Decharneux's verse translations to standard ones per guidelines (must be otherwise cited properly)

2023-11-01T00:16:23Z

Tidied up, added lead, added image, changed from Decharneux's verse translations to standard ones per guidelines (must be otherwise cited properly)

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CPO675: /* Islamic literature */ Page ready for review

2023-10-29T22:05:23Z

Islamic literature: Page ready for review

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:05, 29 October 2023
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	{{Quote\|{{Al Tirmidhi\|\|5\|44\|3224}}\|Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:		{{Quote\|{{Al Tirmidhi\|\|5\|44\|3224}}\|Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
	"We were with the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), while he was sitting with a group of his Companions, when they saw a glowing shooting star. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'When you saw the likes of this during Jahiliyyah, what would you say about it?' They said: 'We would say that a great man died, or that a great man has been born.' The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'It is not shot due to the death of anyone, nor his coming into life. Rather when our Lord [Blessed is His Name and Most High] decrees a matter, He is glorified by the bearers of the Throne. Then He is glorified by the inhabitants who are below them, then those below them, until such glorification reaches this Heaven. Then the inhabitants of the sixth Heaven ask the inhabitants of the seventh Heaven: "What did your Lord say?" He said: 'So they inform them; then the inhabitants of each Heaven seek the information, until the news is conveyed to the inhabitants of the Heavens of the earth. The Shayatin try to overhear so they are shot at, so they cast it down to their friends. Whatever they came with is true, as it is, but they distort it and add to it.'"}}Showing this reinforcing the incorrect idea of stars being shooting stars, and giving us yet a fourth word for stars as confirmation.		"We were with the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), while he was sitting with a group of his Companions, when they saw a glowing shooting star. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'When you saw the likes of this during Jahiliyyah, what would you say about it?' They said: 'We would say that a great man died, or that a great man has been born.' The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'It is not shot due to the death of anyone, nor his coming into life. Rather when our Lord [Blessed is His Name and Most High] decrees a matter, He is glorified by the bearers of the Throne. Then He is glorified by the inhabitants who are below them, then those below them, until such glorification reaches this Heaven. Then the inhabitants of the sixth Heaven ask the inhabitants of the seventh Heaven: "What did your Lord say?" He said: 'So they inform them; then the inhabitants of each Heaven seek the information, until the news is conveyed to the inhabitants of the Heavens of the earth. The Shayatin try to overhear so they are shot at, so they cast it down to their friends. Whatever they came with is true, as it is, but they distort it and add to it.'"}}Showing this reinforcing the incorrect idea of stars being shooting stars, and giving us yet a fourth word for stars as confirmation.


			'''Other companions'''

			Although much of the commentary is disputed to actually come from [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Abbas Ibn Abbas] (the prophets cousin), the tafsir on the Qur'an attributed to him states:
			{{Quote\|{{cite web\| url=https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Abbas/67.5 \| title=Abbas - Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs 67:5}}\|(And verily We have beatified the world's heaven) the first heaven (with lamps) with stars, (and We have made them) i.e. the stars (missiles for the devils) such that some of them become bewitched, some are killed while others are burnt, (and for them) for the devils (We have prepared) in the Hereafter (the doom of flame.}}
			Which even if not from him directly, gives us a more contemporary view of these verses.

	===Muslim Historians===		===Muslim Historians===

CPO675: /* The Qur'an */

2023-10-27T19:07:40Z

The Qur'an

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:07, 27 October 2023
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	===Muslim Historians===		===Muslim Historians===
	Meteor showers were of unknown cause to 7th Century Arabs, as the later (than the Quran's writing) historian and geographer [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya%27qubi Al-Ya'qubi] (d 897/8AD) reports several meteor showers that happened just before and during Muhammad's lifetime (In 571 AD and 609 AD), attributing them to shooting stars/planets striking devils, with the multitude of them potentially leading to the idea they are 'pelted from every side'. Further Muslim historians such as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_%27Idhari Ibn 'Idhari] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Jawzi Ibn al-Jawzi] confirm this understanding, with a summary of their assessment of meteor showers held in this [https://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=1992QJRAS..33....5R&db_key=AST&page_ind=6&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_GIF&classic=YES Royal Astronomical Society publication.]		Meteor showers were of unknown cause to 7th Century Arabs, as the later (than the Quran's writing) historian and geographer [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya%27qubi Al-Ya'qubi] (d 897/8AD) reports several meteor showers that happened just before and during Muhammad's lifetime (In 571 AD and 609 AD), attributing them to shooting stars/planets striking devils, with the multitude of them potentially leading to the idea they are 'pelted from every side'. Further Muslim historians such as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_%27Idhari Ibn 'Idhari] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Jawzi Ibn al-Jawzi] confirm this understanding, with a summary of their assessment of meteor showers held in this [https://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=1992QJRAS..33....5R&db_key=AST&page_ind=6&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_GIF&classic=YES Royal Astronomical Society publication.]

	===Versus modern science===		== Versus modern science ==
	As mentioned in the introduction, while stars are giant balls of gas thousands of times larger than the earth, meteors are now known to be distinct from the distant stars, being small rocky masses or grains of debris which burn up after entering the earth's atmosphere. This debris is not even 'star-like', but just rocks, metal and dust with no light source, and therefore cannot accurately be said to match the description of 'lamps'.		As mentioned in the introduction, while stars are giant balls of gas thousands of times larger than the earth, meteors are now known to be distinct from the distant stars, being small rocky masses or grains of debris which burn up after entering the earth's atmosphere. This debris is not even 'star-like', but just rocks, metal and dust with no light source, and therefore cannot accurately be said to match the description of 'lamps'.

CPO675: /* Ancient beliefs around stars and meteors pre-Islam */

2023-10-27T19:06:57Z

Ancient beliefs around stars and meteors pre-Islam

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:06, 27 October 2023
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	And because of it these went up in fire.		And because of it these went up in fire.
	This happened utterly...}}		This happened utterly...}}
	A discussion linking this event to being a meteorite can be found [https://hcommons.org/deposits/objects/hc:27978/datastreams/CONTENT/content?download=true here](''“Then a Star Fell:” Folk-Memory of a Celestial Impact Event in the Ancient Egyptian Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor? Dr Lloyd D. Graham. 2022)''.<ref>[https://www.academia.edu/35137388 Then a Star Fell:” Folk-Memory of a Celestial Impact Event in the Ancient Egyptian Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor?] Dr Lloyd D. Graham. 2022).</ref> And for a further discussion of a theoretically catastrophic impact in ancient Egypt, see ''Aly Barakat, ‘Did the Kamil Meteorite Fall Contribute to the Downfall of the Old Kingdom?’, The Ostracon: Journal of the Egyptian Study Society, XXIV (Fall 2013), pp. 12–21.''<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_T0MWfFWfo Egypt's Impact Catastrophe Found (!?) & Old Kingdom's End. cf-apps7865. 2019.] ''- YouTube video covering Aly Barakat, ‘Did the Kamil Meteorite Fall Contribute to the Downfall of the Old Kingdom?’''</ref>		A discussion linking this event to being a meteorite can be found [https://hcommons.org/deposits/objects/hc:27978/datastreams/CONTENT/content?download=true here](''“Then a Star Fell:” Folk-Memory of a Celestial Impact Event in the Ancient Egyptian Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor? Dr Lloyd D. Graham. 2022)''.<ref>[https://www.academia.edu/35137388 Then a Star Fell:” Folk-Memory of a Celestial Impact Event in the Ancient Egyptian Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor?] Dr Lloyd D. Graham. 2022).</ref> And for a further discussion of a theoretically catastrophic impact in ancient Egypt, see ''Aly Barakat, ‘Did the Kamil Meteorite Fall Contribute to the Downfall of the Old Kingdom?’, The Ostracon: Journal of the Egyptian Study Society, XXIV (Fall 2013), pp. 12–21.''<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_T0MWfFWfo Egypt's Impact Catastrophe Found (!?) & Old Kingdom's End. cf-apps7865. 2019.] ''- YouTube video covering Aly Barakat, ‘Did the Kamil Meteorite Fall Contribute to the Downfall of the Old Kingdom?’, The Ostracon: Journal of the Egyptian Study Society, XXIV (Fall 2013), pp. 12–21.''</ref>

	'''Biblical motifs'''		'''Biblical motifs'''
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	==Islamic literature==		==Islamic literature==

	===~~In the~~ Qur'an===		===The Qur'an===
	The Qur'an states that stars (kawakib ٱلْكَوَاكِبِ), lamps (masabih مَصَٰبِيحَ) and/or great stars/constellations (burūj بُرُوجًا) adorn the heavens and guard against devils (shayāṭīn شياطين).		The Qur'an states that stars (kawakib ٱلْكَوَاكِبِ), lamps (masabih مَصَٰبِيحَ) and/or great stars/constellations (burūj بُرُوجًا) adorn the heavens and guard against devils (shayāṭīn شياطين).

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	And [https://quran.com/21?startingVerse=32 Quran 21:32], which many classical commentators have associated with protection against devils:		And [https://quran.com/21?startingVerse=32 Quran 21:32], which many classical commentators have associated with protection against devils:
	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|21\|32}}\|And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away.}}		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|21\|32}}\|And We made the sky a protected ceiling, but they, from its signs, are turning away.}}
	=== ~~In the~~ Hadith ===		=== The Hadith ===
	A hadith in Sahih Muslim confirms that the 'pursuant flames / missiles' in the two verses refer to meteors which they saw shooting across the sky.		A hadith in Sahih Muslim confirms that the 'pursuant flames / missiles' in the two verses refer to meteors which they saw shooting across the sky.

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	As mentioned in the introduction, while stars are giant balls of gas thousands of times larger than the earth, meteors are now known to be distinct from the distant stars, being small rocky masses or grains of debris which burn up after entering the earth's atmosphere. This debris is not even 'star-like', but just rocks, metal and dust with no light source, and therefore cannot accurately be said to match the description of 'lamps'.		As mentioned in the introduction, while stars are giant balls of gas thousands of times larger than the earth, meteors are now known to be distinct from the distant stars, being small rocky masses or grains of debris which burn up after entering the earth's atmosphere. This debris is not even 'star-like', but just rocks, metal and dust with no light source, and therefore cannot accurately be said to match the description of 'lamps'.

	They are often not much larger than grains of sand and only become visible for a second when they burn up, generating light in the Earth's atmosphere. Many ancient people confused the two, as meteors look like stars that are streaking across the sky; this is why they were often called shooting stars or falling stars <u>(</u>''see: [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-science-of-shooting-stars/ The Scientific American. The Science of Shooting Stars. 2023. Phil Plait.] for a further explanation of the science ~~and differences between them~~'').		They are often not much larger than grains of sand and only become visible for a second when they burn up, generating light in the Earth's atmosphere. Many ancient people confused the two, as meteors look like stars that are streaking across the sky; this is why they were often called shooting stars or falling stars <u>(</u>''see: [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-science-of-shooting-stars/ The Scientific American. The Science of Shooting Stars. 2023. Phil Plait.] for a further explanation of the science for the casual reader'').

	Large increases in meteors occur on a predictable schedule each year as the Earth's orbit passes through the stream of particles and debris left in the wake of a number of comets (or in a few cases, of asteroids). They only burn in Earths atmosphere due to friction from travelling extremely fast in a vacuum which takes no energy, to being compressed by air in the atmosphere, rising the temperature and setting fire where there is oxygen.<ref name=":0">Science. How stuff works. ''[https://science.howstuffworks.com/question308.htm Meteors burn up when they hit the Earth's atmosphere. Why doesn't the space shuttle?]''</ref><ref>NASA Science. Spaceplace. ''[https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/mesosphere/en/ Explore Earth and Space. Mesosphere.]''</ref> The most visible is usually the annual [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseids Perseid meteor shower] in August, which easily look like stars with flames being used a weapon in the sky. Meteor showers look like stars 'pelting' from every side.		Large increases in meteors occur on a predictable schedule each year as the Earth's orbit passes through the stream of particles and debris left in the wake of a number of comets (or in a few cases, of asteroids). They only burn in Earths atmosphere due to friction from travelling extremely fast in a vacuum which takes no energy, to being compressed by air in the atmosphere, rising the temperature and setting fire where there is oxygen.<ref name=":0">Science. How stuff works. ''[https://science.howstuffworks.com/question308.htm Meteors burn up when they hit the Earth's atmosphere. Why doesn't the space shuttle?]''</ref><ref>NASA Science. Spaceplace. ''[https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/mesosphere/en/ Explore Earth and Space. Mesosphere.]''</ref> The most visible is usually the annual [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseids Perseid meteor shower] in August, which easily look like stars with flames being used a weapon in the sky. Meteor showers look like stars 'pelting' from every side.

CPO675: /* Ancient beliefs around stars and meteors pre-Islam */ References updates - thanks for your help Lightyears. Will do final check tomorrow.

2023-10-26T22:23:18Z

Ancient beliefs around stars and meteors pre-Islam: References updates - thanks for your help Lightyears. Will do final check tomorrow.

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:23, 26 October 2023
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	===Meteors come from stars===		===Meteors come from stars===
	Some apologists, for example, the highly influential [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abul_A'la_Maududi Ala-Maududi] (d. 1979 AD) writing in light of much more modern science in his modern tasfir wrote:{{Quote\|{{cite web\| url=https://myislam.org/surah-al-mulk/ayat-5/#:~:text=Ala%2DMaududi,9. \| title= Tasfir Ala-Maududi 67.5}}\|This does not mean that the stars themselves are pelted at the Satans, nor that the meteorites shoot out only to drive away the Satans, <b>but it means that the countless meteorites which originate from the stars and wander in space at tremendous speeds and which also fall to the earth in a continuous shower prevent the Satans of the earth from ascending to the heavens.</b> Even if they try to ascend heavenward these meteorites drive them away. This thing has been mentioned here because the Arabs believed about the soothsayers, and this also was the claim made by the soothsayers themselves, that the Satans were under their control, or that they had a close contact with them, and through them they received news of the unseen, and thus, could foretell the destinies of the people. That is why at several places in the Quran, it has been stated that there is absolutely no possibility for the Satans ascending to the heavens and bringing news of the unseen. For explanation, see (Surah Al-Hijr, ayat 16-18) note 9-12, (Surah As-Saaffat, ayat 7-10) note 6,7. As for the truth about meteorites, man’s information in this regard is still without a scientific basis. However, the theory which seems best to account for all the facts known today and the information gathered from the examination of the meteorites fallen on the earth, is that meteorites originate from the disintegration of one or more planets and wander in space and sometimes fall to the earth under its gravitational pull. (See Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. XV, under Meteorites).}}		Some apologists, for example, the highly influential [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abul_A'la_Maududi Ala-Maududi] (d. 1979 AD) writing in light of much more modern science in his modern tasfir wrote:{{Quote\|{{cite web\| url=https://myislam.org/surah-al-mulk/ayat-5/#:~:text=Ala%2DMaududi,9. \| title= Tasfir Ala-Maududi 67.5}}\|This does not mean that the stars themselves are pelted at the Satans, nor that the meteorites shoot out only to drive away the Satans, <b>but it means that the countless meteorites which originate from the stars and wander in space at tremendous speeds and which also fall to the earth in a continuous shower prevent the Satans of the earth from ascending to the heavens.</b> Even if they try to ascend heavenward these meteorites drive them away. This thing has been mentioned here because the Arabs believed about the soothsayers, and this also was the claim made by the soothsayers themselves, that the Satans were under their control, or that they had a close contact with them, and through them they received news of the unseen, and thus, could foretell the destinies of the people. That is why at several places in the Quran, it has been stated that there is absolutely no possibility for the Satans ascending to the heavens and bringing news of the unseen. For explanation, see (Surah Al-Hijr, ayat 16-18) note 9-12, (Surah As-Saaffat, ayat 7-10) note 6,7. As for the truth about meteorites, man’s information in this regard is still without a scientific basis. However, the theory which seems best to account for all the facts known today and the information gathered from the examination of the meteorites fallen on the earth, is that meteorites originate from the disintegration of one or more planets and wander in space and sometimes fall to the earth under its gravitational pull. (See Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. XV, under Meteorites).}}
	''Note: the claim that meteorites ('Meteorites' are specifically 'space rocks', i.e. the debris that have survived the burning all the way to Earth’s surface from meteors, not meteors themselves which are the burning objects and mostly come from comet debris) come from planets disintegrating is highly misleading and out-of-date. Very few meteors become meteorites (only 5-10%),<ref>Space.com. ''[https://www.space.com/33695-thousands-meteorites-litter-earth-unpredictable-collisions.html How Often do Meteorites Hit the Earth?]'' 2016. Samantha Mathewson. </ref> and of those that do, ~99.8% percent of meteorites are believed to originate from asteroids with the remaining small fraction (~0.2%) of meteorites originating from an asteroid or comet colliding with either the Mars or the Moon (split roughly equally between them), and the debris eventually falling into Earths gravitational pull.<ref>''NASA. [https://science.nasa.gov/solar-system/meteors-meteorites/facts/ Meteors and Meteorites: Facts.]''</ref> The moon is never mentioned having this function, and Mars is only one of approximately 700 quintillion planets, with the rest being too far away for this.<ref>''[https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/space-astronomy/astronomy-articles/how-many-planets-universe/ There are over 700 quintillion planets in the universe — but there’s no place like home.]'' ZME Science. 2023. Tibi Puiu.</ref> Planets themselves, just like stars, are not throw to become meteors.''		''Note: the claim that meteorites ('Meteorites' are specifically 'space rocks', i.e. the debris that have survived the burning all the way to Earth’s surface from meteors, not meteors themselves which are the burning objects and mostly come from comet debris) come from planets disintegrating is highly misleading and out-of-date. Very few meteors become meteorites (only 5-10%),<ref>Space.com. ''[https://www.space.com/33695-thousands-meteorites-litter-earth-unpredictable-collisions.html How Often do Meteorites Hit the Earth?]'' 2016. Samantha Mathewson. </ref> and of those that do, ~99.8% percent of meteorites are believed to originate from asteroids with the remaining small fraction (~0.2%) of meteorites originating from an asteroid or comet colliding with either the Mars or the Moon (split roughly equally between them), and the debris eventually falling into Earths gravitational pull.<ref>''NASA. [https://science.nasa.gov/solar-system/meteors-meteorites/facts/ Meteors and Meteorites: Facts.]''</ref> The moon is never mentioned having this function, and Mars is only one of approximately 700 quintillion planets, with the rest being too far away for this.<ref>''[https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/space-astronomy/astronomy-articles/how-many-planets-universe/ There are over 700 quintillion planets in the universe — but there’s no place like home.]'' ZME Science. 2023. Tibi Puiu.</ref> Planets themselves, just like stars, are not missiles throw to become meteors.''

	'''Objections to this claim'''		'''Objections to this claim'''
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	'''I also wanted to add a photo of a meteor shower at night (this one specifically''' https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/perseids-in-night-time-gm490432460-75207739?phrase=meteor+shower&searchscope=image%2Cfilm) '''to highlight the similarities and bring some colour to the page, which is covered for use on websites by their license agreement''' https://www.istockphoto.com/legal/license-agreement''', but can't as I don't have admin power.''' '''If I purchased this (it's very cheap) could I send over to someone to upload please?'''		'''I also wanted to add a photo of a meteor shower at night (this one specifically''' https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/perseids-in-night-time-gm490432460-75207739?phrase=meteor+shower&searchscope=image%2Cfilm) '''to highlight the similarities and bring some colour to the page, which is covered for use on websites by their license agreement''' https://www.istockphoto.com/legal/license-agreement''', but can't as I don't have admin power.''' '''If I purchased this (it's very cheap) could I send over to someone to upload please?'''
	:Sure, once you have the photo you can upload it temporarily to Imgur or ImgBB and provide a link here. Then I will upload it and add it to the page (you can then move it to anywhere else you wish). [[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 18:37, 23 October 2023 (UTC)		:Sure, once you have the photo you can upload it temporarily to Imgur or ImgBB and provide a link here. Then I will upload it and add it to the page (you can then move it to anywhere else you wish). [[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 18:37, 23 October 2023 (UTC) '''Thanks, does this link work for you on Google Share please?''' <nowiki>https://photos.app.goo.gl/ycrereZ3msmC2RyT9</nowiki>
	*I've replaced the links to Quranx.com with the <nowiki>{{Quran\|\|}}</nowiki> template. When citing verses please always use the <nowiki>{{Quran\|\|}}</nowiki> or <nowiki>{{Quran-range\|\|\|}}</nowiki> templates since one day the url structure may change or we might have to use another site (both of which have happened in the past). Thanks to using the template we didn't have to go through every single citation and fix them when that happened. We just changed the website pointed to by the template or the url structure in the template.		*I've replaced the links to Quranx.com with the <nowiki>{{Quran\|\|}}</nowiki> template. When citing verses please always use the <nowiki>{{Quran\|\|}}</nowiki> or <nowiki>{{Quran-range\|\|\|}}</nowiki> templates since one day the url structure may change or we might have to use another site (both of which have happened in the past). Thanks to using the template we didn't have to go through every single citation and fix them when that happened. We just changed the website pointed to by the template or the url structure in the template.
	*I've also added a little more detail on the interesting phrase in the Tirmidhi hadith with links to Lane's Lexicon		*I've also added a little more detail on the interesting phrase in the Tirmidhi hadith with links to Lane's Lexicon
	*As mentioned somewhere in the wiki guide, nowadays we do not have a section titled "Conclusion" as we are going for a more encyclopedic format rather than telling the reader what to think overall, so I've edited and retitled that section. [[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 22:15, 15 October 2023 (UTC)		*As mentioned somewhere in the wiki guide, nowadays we do not have a section titled "Conclusion" as we are going for a more encyclopedic format rather than telling the reader what to think overall, so I've edited and retitled that section. [[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 22:15, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

CPO675: /* Meteors come from stars */

2023-10-26T21:57:38Z

Meteors come from stars

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:57, 26 October 2023
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	Other relevant verses are {{Quran\|55\|33-35}} (flame of fire and smoke, though a slightly different context):		Other relevant verses are {{Quran\|55\|33-35}} (flame of fire and smoke, though a slightly different context):

	{{Quote\|{{Quran\|55\|33-35}}\|O company of jinn and mankind, if you are able to pass beyond the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass. You will not pass except by authority [from Allah]. So which of the favors of your Lord would you deny? There will be sent upon you a flame of fire and smoke, and you will not defend yourselves.}}Note that no astronauts or human-made robots leaving Earth have yet been hit by fire and smoke, both which cannot actually occur in space due to the lack of oxygen.<ref>''[https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24733000-900-lighting-fires-in-space-is-helping-us-make-greener-energy-on-earth/ ~~New Scientist.~~ Lighting fires in space is helping us make greener energy on Earth.] 2020. Philip Ball.''</ref>		{{Quote\|{{Quran\|55\|33-35}}\|O company of jinn and mankind, if you are able to pass beyond the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass. You will not pass except by authority [from Allah]. So which of the favors of your Lord would you deny? There will be sent upon you a flame of fire and smoke, and you will not defend yourselves.}}Note that no astronauts or human-made robots leaving Earth have yet been hit by fire and smoke, both which cannot actually occur in space due to the lack of oxygen.<ref>''[https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24733000-900-lighting-fires-in-space-is-helping-us-make-greener-energy-on-earth/ Lighting fires in space is helping us make greener energy on Earth.]'' New Scientist. 2020. Philip Ball.</ref>

	And [https://quran.com/21?startingVerse=32 Quran 21:32], which many classical commentators have associated with protection against devils:		And [https://quran.com/21?startingVerse=32 Quran 21:32], which many classical commentators have associated with protection against devils:
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	===Meteors come from stars===		===Meteors come from stars===
	Some apologists, for example, the highly influential [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abul_A'la_Maududi Ala-Maududi] (d. 1979 AD) writing in light of much more modern science in his modern tasfir wrote:{{Quote\|{{cite web\| url=https://myislam.org/surah-al-mulk/ayat-5/#:~:text=Ala%2DMaududi,9. \| title= Tasfir Ala-Maududi 67.5}}\|This does not mean that the stars themselves are pelted at the Satans, nor that the meteorites shoot out only to drive away the Satans, <b>but it means that the countless meteorites which originate from the stars and wander in space at tremendous speeds and which also fall to the earth in a continuous shower prevent the Satans of the earth from ascending to the heavens.</b> Even if they try to ascend heavenward these meteorites drive them away. This thing has been mentioned here because the Arabs believed about the soothsayers, and this also was the claim made by the soothsayers themselves, that the Satans were under their control, or that they had a close contact with them, and through them they received news of the unseen, and thus, could foretell the destinies of the people. That is why at several places in the Quran, it has been stated that there is absolutely no possibility for the Satans ascending to the heavens and bringing news of the unseen. For explanation, see (Surah Al-Hijr, ayat 16-18) note 9-12, (Surah As-Saaffat, ayat 7-10) note 6,7. As for the truth about meteorites, man’s information in this regard is still without a scientific basis. However, the theory which seems best to account for all the facts known today and the information gathered from the examination of the meteorites fallen on the earth, is that meteorites originate from the disintegration of one or more planets and wander in space and sometimes fall to the earth under its gravitational pull. (See Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. XV, under Meteorites).}}		Some apologists, for example, the highly influential [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abul_A'la_Maududi Ala-Maududi] (d. 1979 AD) writing in light of much more modern science in his modern tasfir wrote:{{Quote\|{{cite web\| url=https://myislam.org/surah-al-mulk/ayat-5/#:~:text=Ala%2DMaududi,9. \| title= Tasfir Ala-Maududi 67.5}}\|This does not mean that the stars themselves are pelted at the Satans, nor that the meteorites shoot out only to drive away the Satans, <b>but it means that the countless meteorites which originate from the stars and wander in space at tremendous speeds and which also fall to the earth in a continuous shower prevent the Satans of the earth from ascending to the heavens.</b> Even if they try to ascend heavenward these meteorites drive them away. This thing has been mentioned here because the Arabs believed about the soothsayers, and this also was the claim made by the soothsayers themselves, that the Satans were under their control, or that they had a close contact with them, and through them they received news of the unseen, and thus, could foretell the destinies of the people. That is why at several places in the Quran, it has been stated that there is absolutely no possibility for the Satans ascending to the heavens and bringing news of the unseen. For explanation, see (Surah Al-Hijr, ayat 16-18) note 9-12, (Surah As-Saaffat, ayat 7-10) note 6,7. As for the truth about meteorites, man’s information in this regard is still without a scientific basis. However, the theory which seems best to account for all the facts known today and the information gathered from the examination of the meteorites fallen on the earth, is that meteorites originate from the disintegration of one or more planets and wander in space and sometimes fall to the earth under its gravitational pull. (See Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. XV, under Meteorites).}}
	''Note: the claim that meteorites ('Meteorites' are specifically 'space rocks', i.e. the debris that have survived the burning all the way to Earth’s surface from meteors, not meteors themselves which are the burning objects and mostly come from comet debris) come from planets disintegrating is highly misleading and out-of-date. Very few meteors become meteorites (only 5-10%),<ref>Space.com. ''[https://www.space.com/33695-thousands-meteorites-litter-earth-unpredictable-collisions.html How Often do Meteorites Hit the Earth?]'' 2016. Samantha Mathewson. </ref> and of those that do, ~99.8% percent of meteorites are believed to originate from asteroids with the remaining small fraction (~0.2%) of meteorites originating from an asteroid or comet colliding with either the Mars or the Moon (split roughly equally between them), and the debris eventually falling into Earths gravitational pull.<ref>''NASA. [https://science.nasa.gov/solar-system/meteors-meteorites/facts/ Meteors and Meteorites: Facts.]''</ref> The moon is never mentioned having this function, and Mars is only one of approximately 700 quintillion planets, with the rest being too far away for this.<ref>''[https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/space-astronomy/astronomy-articles/how-many-planets-universe/ There are over 700 quintillion planets in the universe — but there’s no place like home.]'' ZME Science. 2023. Tibi Puiu.</ref> Planets themselves are not throw to become meteors.''		''Note: the claim that meteorites ('Meteorites' are specifically 'space rocks', i.e. the debris that have survived the burning all the way to Earth’s surface from meteors, not meteors themselves which are the burning objects and mostly come from comet debris) come from planets disintegrating is highly misleading and out-of-date. Very few meteors become meteorites (only 5-10%),<ref>Space.com. ''[https://www.space.com/33695-thousands-meteorites-litter-earth-unpredictable-collisions.html How Often do Meteorites Hit the Earth?]'' 2016. Samantha Mathewson. </ref> and of those that do, ~99.8% percent of meteorites are believed to originate from asteroids with the remaining small fraction (~0.2%) of meteorites originating from an asteroid or comet colliding with either the Mars or the Moon (split roughly equally between them), and the debris eventually falling into Earths gravitational pull.<ref>''NASA. [https://science.nasa.gov/solar-system/meteors-meteorites/facts/ Meteors and Meteorites: Facts.]''</ref> The moon is never mentioned having this function, and Mars is only one of approximately 700 quintillion planets, with the rest being too far away for this.<ref>''[https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/space-astronomy/astronomy-articles/how-many-planets-universe/ There are over 700 quintillion planets in the universe — but there’s no place like home.]'' ZME Science. 2023. Tibi Puiu.</ref> Planets themselves, just like stars, are not throw to become meteors.''

	'''Objections to this claim'''		'''Objections to this claim'''
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	In other words, this has involved twisting the text into something that isn't there.		In other words, this has involved twisting the text into something that isn't there.
	===Cosmic rays===		===Cosmic rays===
	[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abul_A'la_Maududi Ala-Maududi] (d. 1979 AD) also wrote:{{Quote\|{{cite web\| url=https://myislam.org/surah-al-hijr/ayat-18/ \| title= Tasfir Ala-Maududi 15.18}}\|In Arabic the word shihab-i-mubin literally means a fiery flame. In Surah (Surah As-Saffat, Ayat 10), the same thing has been called shihab-i-thaqib (flame that pierces through darkness). <b>This may or may not necessarily be a meteor for it is just possible that it may be some type of rays such as cosmic rays or even a stronger type which we have not been able to discover as yet. </b>Anyhow, if the fiery flame that pursues Satans may be taken to be a meteor, a countless number of these can form a fortification around our sphere of the universe. Scientific observations made with the help of the telescope have shown that billions of these meteors are rushing from space in a mass of rainfall. towards the earth’s atmosphere. Such a scene was witnessed in an eastern pan of North America on November 13, 1833. This is so strong a fortification that it can prevent Satans from passing through any fortified sphere.}}''Note the meteor shower being referred to here Leonid Meteor Storm, where fragments of ice, rock, and dust left behind by the Comet Tempel-Tuttle. About every 33 years, the Leonid meteor shower intensifies, increasing the possibility of a dazzling display of lights.<ref>''[https://blog.newspapers.com/november-12-13-1833-the-night-the-stars-fell/ November 12-13, 1833: The Night the Stars Fell.] Newspapers.com. 2022. Jenny Ashcraft.''</ref> This comes from a predictable pattern of material left behind by the comet entering earths atmosphere and burning up,<ref>Royal Museums Greenwich. ''[https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/leonid-meteor-shower-when-and-where-see-it-uk When and where to see the Leonid meteor shower.]''</ref> they do not actually form a flame in space which is impossible due to there being no oxygen.<ref>''[https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24733000-900-lighting-fires-in-space-is-helping-us-make-greener-energy-on-earth ~~New Scientist.~~ Lighting fires in space is helping us make greener energy on Earth.] 2020. Philip Ball.''</ref>''		[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abul_A'la_Maududi Ala-Maududi] (d. 1979 AD) also wrote:{{Quote\|{{cite web\| url=https://myislam.org/surah-al-hijr/ayat-18/ \| title= Tasfir Ala-Maududi 15.18}}\|In Arabic the word shihab-i-mubin literally means a fiery flame. In Surah (Surah As-Saffat, Ayat 10), the same thing has been called shihab-i-thaqib (flame that pierces through darkness). <b>This may or may not necessarily be a meteor for it is just possible that it may be some type of rays such as cosmic rays or even a stronger type which we have not been able to discover as yet. </b>Anyhow, if the fiery flame that pursues Satans may be taken to be a meteor, a countless number of these can form a fortification around our sphere of the universe. Scientific observations made with the help of the telescope have shown that billions of these meteors are rushing from space in a mass of rainfall. towards the earth’s atmosphere. Such a scene was witnessed in an eastern pan of North America on November 13, 1833. This is so strong a fortification that it can prevent Satans from passing through any fortified sphere.}}''Note the meteor shower being referred to here Leonid Meteor Storm, where fragments of ice, rock, and dust left behind by the Comet Tempel-Tuttle. About every 33 years, the Leonid meteor shower intensifies, increasing the possibility of a dazzling display of lights.<ref>''[https://blog.newspapers.com/november-12-13-1833-the-night-the-stars-fell/ November 12-13, 1833: The Night the Stars Fell.] Newspapers.com. 2022. Jenny Ashcraft.''</ref> This comes from a predictable pattern of material left behind by the comet entering earths atmosphere and burning up,<ref>Royal Museums Greenwich. ''[https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/leonid-meteor-shower-when-and-where-see-it-uk When and where to see the Leonid meteor shower.]''</ref> they do not actually form a flame in space which is impossible due to there being no oxygen.<ref>''[https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24733000-900-lighting-fires-in-space-is-helping-us-make-greener-energy-on-earth Lighting fires in space is helping us make greener energy on Earth.]'' New Scientist. 2020. Philip Ball.</ref>''

	Two other alternative interpretations popular in modern times<ref>https://www.facebook.com/100PROOFSGODEXISTS/photos/are-meteors-or-shooting-stars-used-as-missiles-for-the-devilsjinn-answer-no1-qur/1438650339514784/~~</ref> ''(Facebook Group.~~ Quran and Science in Harmony. 2017.~~)''~~ are that the Quran is referring to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_mass_ejection coronal mass ejections] (large eruptions of charged matter from the sun or other stars), or [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_ray cosmic rays] (high energy, sub-atomic particles travelling through interstellar space). However, coronal mass ejections move slowly in cosmic terms, disperse over distance and do not come from surprise directions ({{Quran\|37\|8}} states that the devils are pelted from every side, and pursued by a piercing flame if they escape with anything they overheard). Cosmic rays do not emit light as they travel through space and therefore nor could these be the flaming missiles of fire and smoke in the Quran.		Two other alternative interpretations popular in modern times<ref>''[https://www.facebook.com/100PROOFSGODEXISTS/photos/are-meteors-or-shooting-stars-used-as-missiles-for-the-devilsjinn-answer-no1-qur/1438650339514784/ Quran and Science in Harmony.]'' Facebook Group. 2017.</ref> as seen above, are that the Quran is referring to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronal_mass_ejection coronal mass ejections] (large eruptions of charged matter from the sun or other stars), or [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_ray cosmic rays] (high energy, sub-atomic particles travelling through interstellar space). However, coronal mass ejections move slowly in cosmic terms, disperse over distance and do not come from surprise directions ({{Quran\|37\|8}} states that the devils are pelted from every side, and pursued by a piercing flame if they escape with anything they overheard). Cosmic rays do not emit light as they travel through space and therefore nor could these be the flaming missiles of fire and smoke in the Quran.

	==Additional points==		==Additional points==
	On a separate note, though stars are described as an ornament or beauty for the sky in {{Quran\|37\|6}}, and {{Quran\|67\|5}}, there are an estimated minimum c.100 septillion stars<ref>https://universe.nasa.gov/stars/basics/~~</ref> ''(NASA. Universe Exploration.~~ Basics. Stars.)'' in the known universe, but only a few thousand are actually visible to the naked eye.<ref>https://lovethenightsky.com/how-many-stars-can-i-see/~~</ref>~~ ''(Lovethenightsky. ~~Astronomy.~~ Tanya C. Forde.~~)''<ref>[https://lovethenightsky.com/how-many-stars-can-i-see/ HOW MANY STARS CAN I SEE AT NIGHT?]~~</ref>		On a separate note, though stars are described as an ornament or beauty for the sky in {{Quran\|37\|6}}, and {{Quran\|67\|5}}, there are an estimated minimum c.100 septillion stars<ref>NASA. Universe Exploration. ''[https://universe.nasa.gov/stars/basics/ Basics. Stars.]''</ref> in the known universe, but only a few thousand are actually visible to the naked eye.<ref>[https://lovethenightsky.com/how-many-stars-can-i-see/ ''How many stars can I see at night?''] Astronomy. Lovethenightsky. Tanya C. Forde.</ref>

	There is also nothing said of their function of holding planetary systems together,<ref>https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/how-do-stars-form-and-evolve/</ref> ~~''(NASA. Astrophysics. Stars.)''~~ which could have easily been done by differentiation of fixed stars from moving stars, and shown genuine scientific foreknowledge.		There is also nothing said of their function of holding planetary systems together,<ref>NASA Science. Astrophysics. Focus Areas. ''[https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/how-do-stars-form-and-evolve/ Stars.]''</ref> which could have easily been done by differentiation of fixed stars from moving stars, and shown genuine scientific foreknowledge.

	==External Links==		==External Links==

CPO675: /* Introduction */

2023-10-26T21:46:21Z

Introduction

Show changes

Lightyears at 18:38, 23 October 2023

2023-10-23T18:38:15Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:38, 23 October 2023
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	'''Instead I have added how I would cite this in brackets next to the citation link in the text. It always includes the name of the page and title. As well as organisation, author and publication where they are provided on the website.'''		'''Instead I have added how I would cite this in brackets next to the citation link in the text. It always includes the name of the page and title. As well as organisation, author and publication where they are provided on the website.'''
			:I gave it a quick test for your first ref and it worked ok for me. I didn't directly edit in the References section. Rather, in visual editor I clicked the ref [1] near the beginning of the main text of the article itself which made a small box appear with the reference. Then in that box I clicked Edit, added the text for the website name etc. (and cut the existing link itself to clipboard), highlighted the title of the BBC webpage which I had typed in, clicked the link button and pasted the url. [[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 18:37, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
	*Some links have very long url parameters which start with #:~:text. This occurs when you copy paste a link from the google "People also ask" suggestions. It highlights certain words on the webpage and will confuse readers, so please trim off the #:~:text part from any urls.		*Some links have very long url parameters which start with #:~:text. This occurs when you copy paste a link from the google "People also ask" suggestions. It highlights certain words on the webpage and will confuse readers, so please trim off the #:~:text part from any urls.
	*With academia.edu links, it's a good idea to strip out everything after the 8 digit number in the url (on wikipedia this is done automatically by a bot). The link will then always work even if the author tweaks the title and results in a much less unwieldy url if the title is long.		*With academia.edu links, it's a good idea to strip out everything after the 8 digit number in the url (on wikipedia this is done automatically by a bot). The link will then always work even if the author tweaks the title and results in a much less unwieldy url if the title is long.
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	'''I also wanted to add a photo of a meteor shower at night (this one specifically''' https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/perseids-in-night-time-gm490432460-75207739?phrase=meteor+shower&searchscope=image%2Cfilm) '''to highlight the similarities and bring some colour to the page, which is covered for use on websites by their license agreement''' https://www.istockphoto.com/legal/license-agreement''', but can't as I don't have admin power.''' '''If I purchased this (it's very cheap) could I send over to someone to upload please?'''		'''I also wanted to add a photo of a meteor shower at night (this one specifically''' https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/perseids-in-night-time-gm490432460-75207739?phrase=meteor+shower&searchscope=image%2Cfilm) '''to highlight the similarities and bring some colour to the page, which is covered for use on websites by their license agreement''' https://www.istockphoto.com/legal/license-agreement''', but can't as I don't have admin power.''' '''If I purchased this (it's very cheap) could I send over to someone to upload please?'''
			:Sure, once you have the photo you can upload it temporarily to Imgur or ImgBB and provide a link here. Then I will upload it and add it to the page (you can then move it to anywhere else you wish). [[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 18:37, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
	*I've replaced the links to Quranx.com with the <nowiki>{{Quran\|\|}}</nowiki> template. When citing verses please always use the <nowiki>{{Quran\|\|}}</nowiki> or <nowiki>{{Quran-range\|\|\|}}</nowiki> templates since one day the url structure may change or we might have to use another site (both of which have happened in the past). Thanks to using the template we didn't have to go through every single citation and fix them when that happened. We just changed the website pointed to by the template or the url structure in the template.		*I've replaced the links to Quranx.com with the <nowiki>{{Quran\|\|}}</nowiki> template. When citing verses please always use the <nowiki>{{Quran\|\|}}</nowiki> or <nowiki>{{Quran-range\|\|\|}}</nowiki> templates since one day the url structure may change or we might have to use another site (both of which have happened in the past). Thanks to using the template we didn't have to go through every single citation and fix them when that happened. We just changed the website pointed to by the template or the url structure in the template.
	*I've also added a little more detail on the interesting phrase in the Tirmidhi hadith with links to Lane's Lexicon		*I've also added a little more detail on the interesting phrase in the Tirmidhi hadith with links to Lane's Lexicon
	*As mentioned somewhere in the wiki guide, nowadays we do not have a section titled "Conclusion" as we are going for a more encyclopedic format rather than telling the reader what to think overall, so I've edited and retitled that section. [[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 22:15, 15 October 2023 (UTC)		*As mentioned somewhere in the wiki guide, nowadays we do not have a section titled "Conclusion" as we are going for a more encyclopedic format rather than telling the reader what to think overall, so I've edited and retitled that section. [[User:Lightyears\|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears\|talk]]) 22:15, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Lightyears: Testing creating ref with links in visual editor

2023-10-23T18:30:30Z

Testing creating ref with links in visual editor

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:30, 23 October 2023
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	Due to their similar size and appearance, many ancient people have confused meteors, which are small rocky masses or grains of debris which burn up after entering the earth's atmosphere as stars streaking across the sky, which is why they were often called shooting stars (as we do in English), broken stars or falling stars.		Due to their similar size and appearance, many ancient people have confused meteors, which are small rocky masses or grains of debris which burn up after entering the earth's atmosphere as stars streaking across the sky, which is why they were often called shooting stars (as we do in English), broken stars or falling stars.

	On a typical night it means you might see just a few meteors an hour streaking randomly across the sky. These are called sporadic meteors. At certain times of the year these numbers can increase to around 100 meteors an hour in events called meteor showers, as Earth ploughs through denser streams of particles in its orbit around the Sun.<ref>https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/space-science/what-causes-meteor-shower~~</ref>~~ ''(BBC Sky at Night Magazine. 2023. Penny Wozniakiewicz)''		On a typical night it means you might see just a few meteors an hour streaking randomly across the sky. These are called sporadic meteors. At certain times of the year these numbers can increase to around 100 meteors an hour in events called meteor showers, as Earth ploughs through denser streams of particles in its orbit around the Sun.<ref>[https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/space-science/what-causes-meteor-shower What causes a meteor shower?] ''BBC Sky at Night Magazine. 2023. Penny Wozniakiewicz''</ref>

	===Ancient beliefs around stars and meteors pre-Islam===		===Ancient beliefs around stars and meteors pre-Islam===